Lawsuit from a Panigale Rider

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wilkson said:
To be honest I would not expect ruts or sandbags at any track run off should be exactly that if drainage is a issue there are better ways of fixing it other than sand bags it's America you guys can do anything .
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It's all down to cost and everyone trying to make mega profits.

Can't keep making these mega profits yearly without something going wrong relying on bandaid solutions.
 
I have not read all the responses, so all of this has probably been debated. I roadraced at an amateur level 35 years ago so I'm not without experience in this discussion.

First of all, quit talking about the fact the guy should not have run off the track. This is why we have track days....so that an inexperienced rider can go out and have fun. Very few people who have raced or tracked have never gone off the track.

The sand bags should not have been there. I do think there was a degree of negligence there. For many, many years tracks have worked hard to make the tracks safer. That was inexcusable.

Next, don't blame the rider or the lawyers. They don't make the rules. The courts and the laws of the land make the rules. If you don't like it blame the law makers. I fully agree that we pay out way too much in "damages" in this country. In this case there was probably contributory negligence and I'd be okay with the track being held responsible for half of the actual damages and medical expenses, but no more.

I don't necessarily think that signing a waiver eliminates the ability to file claims when there is negligence. We as individuals are at a huge disadvantage when businesses have the means to have attorneys write contracts that as individuals we simply don't have the means to fully understand or negotiate.

But again, I'm talking about negligence being the key here. Was it or was it not negligence on the part of the track? That should be the only grounds for a lawsuit in my opinion, and only actual damages caused by negligence should be considered.
 
I had a very good car instructor tell me many years ago that cool down laps and caution laps can be very dangerous.
Mainly because your brain relaxes much faster than you speed drops. A lot of accidents happen when people slow down, relax and lose focus.
Combined with it being a session late in the day when he was probably fatigued mentally and physically.

No way he did that on purpose.
 
Let's get down to brass tacks here...WTF DOES happen to those birds???

"Cape Barren geese have a wing span of 6 ft, so no small issue, and are always at Phillip Island and mysteriously disappear the week before Moto GP . See where this all leads to."
 
Calderara di Reno said:
Gets interesting as the court room is played out .....Read where the ride day company could be negligent in not having a system that prevents non attendees to a briefing from getting on track. Phillip Island Ride Days recently implemented a system to check that all registered riders display a stamp on their registration wrist band in pit lane.

Question ...... what would have been the outcome if the sand bags werent there and the culvert was not in disrepair ?? The guy is a dick , but he sees it differently and has gone to a lawyer who is only doing his job (being an arsehole), and would state that there was a PRECEDENT where some one had a pay out of 12Mil, lets go for 15 . Mind boggles and obviously most of us would wear it on the chin and put it down to the game we are in.
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The rider's meeting is very basic here in the States. They go over the different flags, entering and exiting the track, crash procedures, pit speeds, vendors and maybe a raffle. None of them that I've gone to actually walk the track. A few staff riders may go out and rip on the track during the meeting so anything that isn't on the tarmac doesn't matter. It's basically, they paid to rent the track, this is not a race, you're not a pro, we've got your money so now we own you. haha

A lot of people here are missing the point. We all ride on the track, race and we all need an adequate crash zone.

Those sandbags are there temporary and IMHO, if they were brought up at any time throughout the day, I doubt the track org would halt any sessions and address to the folks at Laguna. T5 is supposed to be a very smooth crash zone but not if you put an object in that zone that'll get you some air.

15M is a stretch but keep in mind, those who live in NorCal know that here is a life flight policy available just in case. Air Lift costs was about 20K for a short 5 min trip from T Hill to Kaiser. Tack on the other medical costs and it starts to add up.
 
RRnold said:
The rider's meeting is very basic here in the States. They go over the different flags, entering and exiting the track, crash procedures, pit speeds, vendors and maybe a raffle. None of them that I've gone to actually walk the track. A few staff riders may go out and rip on the track during the meeting so anything that isn't on the tarmac doesn't matter. It's basically, they paid to rent the track, this is not a race, you're not a pro, we've got your money so now we own you. haha

A lot of people here are missing the point. We all ride on the track, race and we all need an adequate crash zone.

Those sandbags are there temporary and IMHO, if they were brought up at any time throughout the day, I doubt the track org would halt any sessions and address to the folks at Laguna. T5 is supposed to be a very smooth crash zone but not if you put an object in that zone that'll get you some air.

15M is a stretch but keep in mind, those who live in NorCal know that here is a life flight policy available just in case. Air Lift costs was about 20K for a short 5 min trip from T Hill to Kaiser. Tack on the other medical costs and it starts to add up.
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No disrespect intended especially since you have a lot of valid points maybe this Is a California way of thinking vs mid-west way of thinking .
IMO
where I live we have at least 4 life flight helo I'm sure most of the tracks I go to have a samaritan type helo. if you go to a trackday and cannot afford to get hurt and or do not have insurance with funds to cover your injuries You're not thinking clearly you shouldn't be on a track .
I've never been to a trackday where the people putting it on didn't warn the riders of hazards off the track. usually they say "take it easy in turn XX you don't want to go down in turn XX" as far as I know every track has at least one corner like this- laguna has several (IMO)
I was in Maui last week and watched so many people trying to surf and getting wadded up bad. it surprised me how many of those people thought there was no risk involved. I saw people getting lessons going into rocks and people trying to surf on their own getting pummeled by huge waves. I bet I saw 20 people in arm slings .
We as road racers and track-day riders should never be like those surfers their ignorance is based on being on land all day and never riding the big wave undertow and such is foreign to them.
if you ride a motorcycle one day you decide to hit the track and you feel there should be compensation for crashing - I just can't find the words .
 
MMC said:
Let's get down to brass tacks here...WTF DOES happen to those birds???

"Cape Barren geese have a wing span of 6 ft, so no small issue, and are always at Phillip Island and mysteriously disappear the week before Moto GP . See where this all leads to."
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here. :RE:RE:RE


1454318127_131048_1454318233_noticia_grande.jpg
 
Macattack said:
No disrespect intended especially since you have a lot of valid points maybe this Is a California way of thinking vs mid-west way of thinking .
IMO
where I live we have at least 4 life flight helo I'm sure most of the tracks I go to have a samaritan type helo. if you go to a trackday and cannot afford to get hurt and or do not have insurance with funds to cover your injuries You're not thinking clearly you shouldn't be on a track .
I've never been to a trackday where the people putting it on didn't warn the riders of hazards off the track. usually they say "take it easy in turn XX you don't want to go down in turn XX" as far as I know every track has at least one corner like this- laguna has several (IMO)
I was in Maui last week and watched so many people trying to surf and getting wadded up bad. it surprised me how many of those people thought there was no risk involved. I saw people getting lessons going into rocks and people trying to surf on their own getting pummeled by huge waves. I bet I saw 20 people in arm slings .
We as road racers and track-day riders should never be like those surfers their ignorance is based on being on land all day and never riding the big wave undertow and such is foreign to them.
if you ride a motorcycle one day you decide to hit the track and you feel there should be compensation for crashing - I just can't find the words .
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What do you mean by CA vs Midwest way of thinking? The track orgs will mention bad sections of the track from the morning inspection.

The point is, temporary items such as those sand bags should be removed for each track day event. Not just for professional races where sponsors, racers and a lot of money is there, summer time etc.

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The LifeFlight coverage is an addition fee and thankfully many are track orgs are starting to advertise it. It's mandatory to have medical coverage prior to signing the waiver. How much coverage, I'm sure most folks don't get the premium.

Tracks orgs between Southern CA and Northern CA are ran differently too. Safety is the main concern but I felt that the NorCal track orgs ran a smoother system then the SoCal track orgs. My first track day was in Sept 2003 and I've ridden all of the tracks on the Western Region; Willow Springs/SOW, California Speedway, Chuckwalla, Buttonwillow, Pahrump, Las Vegas Motor Speedway, Thunderhill, Laguna Seca, Sonoma Raceway, Reno Fernley and Miller Motorsports.
 
Calderara di Reno said:
Question ...... what would have been the outcome if the sand bags werent there and the culvert was not in disrepair ??
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He could've rode it out or laid it down but he definitely wouldnt have gone airborne. I get where the track day guys are mad and say hes a dick for suing but there shouldnt have been sand bags there and the sand bags is what made his crash way worse. Im no lawyer by any means but isnt the rule of thumb to sue high and settle on a lesser value of the high amount lol
 
Government funded healthcare FTW in australia the track day cost pays to have medical staff on standby and if you need a chopper its free. If you need a ambulance it’s either on standby at the track or pay a measly $900.

If you have ambulance cover it’s free or $50 depending on cover.
If your a age pensioner you can take a ride in the ambulance anytime for free.
 
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Halo2 said:
Government funded healthcare FTW in australia the track day cost pays to have medical staff on standby and if you need a chopper its free. If you need a ambulance it's either on standby at the track or pay a measly $900.

If you have ambulance cover it's free or $50 depending on cover.
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Nothing in life is free. ;)

Having an EMT on site during a track days is common occurrence. Thank goodness that majority of the crashes/red flags that I've seen occur during track days resulted in only a couple of bandages from the ambulance.

Keigwins@TheTrack - Enloe Flightcare
 
Lots of things use to be free or close enough in my parents day.

Our taxes pay for it, it isn’t recovered through a user pay system.
 
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Halo2 said:
Government funded healthcare FTW in australia the track day cost pays to have medical staff on standby and if you need a chopper its free. If you need a ambulance it's either on standby at the track or pay a measly $900.

If you have ambulance cover it's free or $50 depending on cover.
If your a age pensioner you can take a ride in the ambulance anytime for free.
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This is covered under Motorcycling Australia insurances LTD as part of your Day or Race licence during sanctioned events.
This is to cover the scraping you off the track and getting you to hospital and initial hospital care, but ongoing care then turns to the public health sector.

So indirectly I pay around $500 a year for this insurance. certain events or international invites you then required to pay for FIA level insurances.



Also this is what the CTP part of your rego covers aswell. scraping you off the road and getting you to hospital.
We had a young lad who crash his bike and didnt make it, he didnt have a current rego on his bike and his family got a bill of $25K for medical support to the accident.
 

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