Lean angle thread

[carnivor32]

Those are some good lean angles. I can tell you it's safe to go 55 degrees on the stock perreli tires. That is as low as I have gone without having the feeling I am goona lose the front end. I have not seen anyone take it lower than 55 degrees so far on stock setup. Reason I started this thread was to know how low you can go without lowside. From there you know the limit and can work on how much speed you can carry into corner. But 55 degrees at 50-60 mph is my limit so far. Has anyone gone 55 degrees at higher speed with stock setup ?

Please stop with the less lean angle is goal crap. If you want to carry more speed into a turn the center of gravity needs to be lower , either you get your body lower or you get your bike lower either way you are going lower. Better body position equals less lean and higher speed. No one disputes that, but the question is how low and how fast can this bike safely go without lowside

 

[wilkson]

Those are some good lean angles. I can tell you it's safe to go 55 degrees on the stock perreli tires. That is as low as I have gone without having the feeling I am goona lose the front end. I have not seen anyone take it lower than 55 degrees so far on stock setup. Reason I started this thread was to know how low you can go without lowside. From there you know the limit and can work on how much speed you can carry into corner. But 55 degrees at 50-60 mph is my limit so far. Has anyone gone 55 degrees at higher speed with stock setup ?

Please stop with the less lean angle is goal crap. If you want to carry more speed into a turn the center of gravity needs to be lower , either you get your body lower or you get your bike lower either way you are going lower. Better body position equals less lean and higher speed. No one disputes that, but the question is how low and how fast can this bike safely go without lowside

Let us know when you find the limit .

 

[JDBeretta]

It's alllliiive!!

 

[Marmoot]

Let us know when you find the limit .

I found the limit is at 90 degrees from vertical. Laterally, however, I only tested around 270 degrees.

 

[kope999R]

the fetish of lean angle... dear dear....

i haven t find anywhere where that number comes from :

to set up my AIM last year this is the formula i found :

lean angle = abs(atan(GPS_LatAcc) * 180 / PI)

its a formula applied to lateral G forces recorded by the pod...

it only says how much your maximum lean was

what the number does not show is :

how long you were at that lean
average lean through the corner
average speed through the dip/rise
decellaration and acceleration at any point.
how fast you moved from upright to leaned over to upright
how far you are from the ground ( banked corners or even a bump)

your maximum possible lean angle before wipe-out

what defines how low you can go is grip.
grip is incalculable as it is an ever-changing combination of :

tiretype
tirepressure
tiretemp
surfacetype
surfacetemp
surfacecleanliness
speed of descent from upward to leaned over
geometry
chassistype
setup of suspension (dive/rebound)
weight distribution

the linearity of all this combined .... who says all these things don not vary within the same corner? even a small deformation of the road can decrease the lean to the ground by 5°..

So this said prepare for hitting the deck at the same lean angle at the same corner.
just because you did not get your tire temp up to the same level, rode them 50 miles too far, grabbed those brakes a tad to hard, the track suddenly cooled or heated up, were over your bars more than usual and overloaded the front or because a car put down some rubber or dust last night. or because you changed the compression damping 2 clicks.. because , even knowing you shouldn't, you did chop that throttle just a little bit..

hitting lean angle is no goal, you can hit it for 0,001 second and go slow ..
speed around a course is found by keeping the throttle open more of the time.
It is found between being leaned over..

the pros i had looking at my data pointed out to things like time between on and off throttle. between brake release and throttle up... never at "oh dear, you don't have enough lean angle".

the magic from GP and lean is not the fact that they hit it, its how they control it to keep and prepare to get as much speed as possible when getting up... and please do not compare anything from GP to any normal bikes. Not even WSBK... the RCV carries 4 pods at 40K a piece to measure things and come up with a settings solution...

so, i am all for data... just not lean angle on a dash board... it just gives a very false sense of security...

just my 5 cents

 

[wilkson]

Well said Kope . The argument was getting ridiculous thanks for slotting in some common sense

 

[Chaotic]

I agree, very well said. I said many of those same thing earlier in the thread but people dont want to see/hear that. They just want to be congratulated on their awesome lean angles. The thing is, I have seen people be elbow-down...and riding 10+ seconds off of anything resembling a competitive race pace.

 

[bradp51]

Kope well said, as a few of us said at the start of this thread, its all just a .... for newbies to motorcycling, but to each is own. I have to add so I don't get banned for a week.

 

[Matt1299]

Food for thought

I am just here for fun. The lean angle thing is just a novelty item in my opinion, and something to laugh about. If I pass a guy on the outside of a turn with his elbow down, cool. If I don't, cool.

 

[wilkson]

I am just here for fun. The lean angle thing is just a novelty item in my opinion, and something to laugh about. If I pass a guy on the outside of a turn with his elbow down, cool. If I don't, cool.

You got the right idea Matt and that really is the way it should be considered .

 

[carnivor32]

Agree with all comments but again some on this thread are missing the point. What is stock setup capable of achieving, not how fast you can do a lap around thunderbolt track.

 

[kope999R]

Sorry to disappoint you but if their would be such thing, it would be in the manual.

but there isn't. because there is no such thing as maximum lean angle. As it varies per minute, per mile of speed, per foot of road, per degree of tire temp, per degree of road temp, per dust-partical/sq inch , etc....

I think this is what we want to warn about when we hear people fixated on the lean angle thing : The number is misleading: as it says absolutely nothing.

And especially does not say what you do need to know: the main thing being: what is my angle from the road.

do no forget : lean is the deviation from upright. Say if in that particular split second in time and place , max lean would be 58°, this would mean on a perfectly horizontal road. if the turn has 3° negative camber, they your max lean meter will read 58° when you'd actually be 3° over your maximum and so washing out..

it is not the lean that determines if you stay upright : mainly it' s the ° you to the road you have left.

and you may be able to hit 62° for 0,5 sec but not 0,75 second. because your suspension is set up for that.

Ask yourself :

everyone has felt it: the difference of taking the turn at the bottom of a descent or at the top of a crest. The impact of difference in inertia on braking, suspension and grip thus max lean....

and so on , and so on ...

plus: Data gains most of its value from comparison to other data... that is why teams with a lot of data on a particular track hold an advantage over those who don't. And how suddenly a certain picking order changes when teams go to new tracks so don't have any data to compare...

Adrey, as the king of the dust-ridden Snake, knows this all to well. He seems to master the changing conditions faultlessly, or chooses his riding days very wisely... i am sure he doesn't want to show up in one off Mickey's video's .... and so far, to my knowledge, hasn't. Hats off to that ... i just hope none of his less talented follower-wannabees don't knock some cyclists of their bikes..

And one thing stands like a cathedral : looking at your dash when at max lean is not the way to go ...

 

[Chaotic]

^ Nailed it.

 

[chillo]

A week after I got my 1299 I went to my local track (Cadwell Park, UK) and this is with stock tyres without really pushing. Was running fairly consistent times even though a lot of traffic not helping, was on dtc1 so only slight intervention on WOT corner exit, very impressed!
Lot more in it when I get my favoured Race Tec's on.

 

[mikecarr4]

A week after I got my 1299 I went to my local track (Cadwell Park, UK) and this is with stock tyres without really pushing. Was running fairly consistent times even though a lot of traffic not helping, was on dtc1 so only slight intervention on WOT corner exit, very impressed!
Lot more in it when I get my favoured Race Tec's on.

1.40 is a good time! 1.42 is my best on my 1199, felt like I could lean greater/easier than my 1299...

 

[chillo]

Back to Cadwell again tonight running fairly consistent 1.39s lots of traffic as was inters/fast grouping and I didn't get a clear lap
58 deg lean was quite a surprise!

 

[carnivor32]

58 is impressive I don't think anyone has gone that low in this forum. Are you running stock perreli?

 

[Chaotic]

58deg. Lol

That leanangleometer is about like dyno results. When used as a gauge to compare yourself to yourself and track/log changes, sure...it might be a handy tool.

But like dyno results, the absolute number is almost irrelevant. No way in hell am I going to believe somebody on this forum (or any forum) hit a TRUE 58deg unless they happen to have a day job winning WSBK races on Factory machines.

 

[JDBeretta]

I'm still curious to know how the IMU measures lean angle... I can find lots of info on what measurements it uses (kind of common sense, I guess), but not what it does with the IMU and micro controller to compensate for things like an upset suspension, different g force in same corner, or braking/acceleration (to name a few) that could throw it off...

If anyone has links or info, that would be awesome.

 

[DynastySS]

My guess is take what the computer says and subtract at least 5 degrees.