Lets Talk: 21 V4SP vs 22 V4 vs 22 V4S

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Loony888 said:
Incorrect.....
VW make a shitload off every Golf they sell.

The Bugatti Veyron (owned by VAG, like Ducati is) cost the company money on every unit they sold.

That's just one example, does that apply to everything? no, i don't think so, but i do think that the upmarket bikes cost a fair bit more to build, limited number of bikes = limited number of expensive parts purchased ....
Click to expand...

Admittedly I’m no subject matter expert, but it seems to me the Veyron cost is a matter of perspective - where do we start and stop counting?

R&D costs, not production costs, drove the per-unit Veyron losses. If the R&D cost is amortized across all models it benefits throughout the entire company, does each Veyron sale actually lose money?

Here’s a short article discussing the issue:

www.autoevolution.com

Bugatti Won't Be Losing Money with the Chiron like They Did with the Veyron

After Dieselgate had broken out, a lot of people feared that Volkswagen would target Bugatti in its attempt to cut down costs. Turns out it didn't need to
www.autoevolution.com www.autoevolution.com


Either way, I can’t see how the upmarket specialty edition bikes cost Ducati a “fair bit” more to produce due to the addition of bolt-on parts and special paint codes. Maybe the R is significantly more expensive, but even then I doubt its double (like the msrp). In general, it’s my understanding that per-unit margins are higher on upmarket retail items.
 
Loony888 said:
Incorrect.....
VW make a shitload off every Golf they sell.

The Bugatti Veyron (owned by VAG, like Ducati is) cost the company money on every unit they sold.

That's just one example, does that apply to everything? no, i don't think so, but i do think that the upmarket bikes cost a fair bit more to build, limited number of bikes = limited number of expensive parts purchased ....
Click to expand...

What Craig said and review the entire business model to include the TCO of the car. Profits are typically not made on new cars almost no company does. Profits come from upgrades repairs, services, etc etc. I wonder what it actually costs to own a Bugatti not including hookers. Must be more than a latte.
 
Vbreeze said:
What Craig said and review the entire business model to include the TCO of the car. Profits are typically not made on new cars almost no company does. Profits come from upgrades repairs, services, etc etc. I wonder what it actually costs to own a Bugatti not including hookers. Must be more than a latte.
Click to expand...

Double shot latte with hazelnut.
 
Vbreeze said:
What Craig said and review the entire business model to include the TCO of the car. Profits are typically not made on new cars almost no company does. Profits come from upgrades repairs, services, etc etc. I wonder what it actually costs to own a Bugatti not including hookers. Must be more than a latte.
Click to expand...

Paper from 2011 on this topic so take it for what you want.

IMG_1115.png

Bugatti’s ROI on the Veyron and Chiron platforms don’t start with the initial allotment. It happens with later hyper-limited special edition cars that cost $5-20M. For reference, the “base” car retails for $3.3M.
 
SuperDomestique said:
Paper from 2011 on this topic so take it for what you want.

View attachment 49322

Bugatti’s ROI on the Veyron and Chiron platforms don’t start with the initial allotment. It happens with later hyper-limited special edition cars that cost $5-20M. For reference, the “base” car retails for $3.3M.
Click to expand...

That's not true. They lose £8m on the paintjob alone.
 
Loony888 said:
I guess it depends on what you want to do with it, If you want to track the bike i'd say go with the base model and spend the extra cash saved on tuning the suspension to suit you.

I have an SP and I have always been sceptical of Carbon Fibre wheels on the street, but lust won over and i figure if Ducati are prepared to supply them on a road bike, and it gets ADR approval oval then i'll trust their judgement..... I don't see the SP as a piss take by the factory either, but then I don't buy them to race them or rag them, i do ride it, and it's a ridiculously fast road bike, they all are, and the C/F wheels, Stylema R calipers, MCS Master cylinder and dry clutch all justify the extra cost, but again, it's a matter of priorities. As for the electronic suspension.... utterly brilliant, and unless the rider is an A grade racer i'm not convinced that a std manual set up will be any better, it really is very, very good, especially on the road. The matt black paint is gorgeous BUT.... it's a pain to look after, and i'm pretty fussy with my bikes, but it is, took me well over a year to figure out how best to wash it without leaving marks in it etc.
And after all that is said, I'm very happy i sold my 1098R so i could buy it, I always liked the Panigale but never saw one just right enough to entice me to upgrade, until the SP. Here's a pic, mine has the full Akro and lots of D/P goodies and it does get coddled, which is diametrically opposed to what a lot of V4 owners do with their bikes on here.

What do you want to do with the V4 you buy?

View attachment 49319
Click to expand...

Heya,

Congrats on the bike!

I'm taking delivery of my SP2 tomorrow and i'd love to pick your brain on cleaning it. The plan is to drive it immediately for an Xpel Stealth complete wrap and ceramic.

Feel free to PM, any advice would be appreciated!
 
Vbreeze said:
What Craig said and review the entire business model to include the TCO of the car. Profits are typically not made on new cars almost no company does. Profits come from upgrades repairs, services, etc etc. I wonder what it actually costs to own a Bugatti not including hookers. Must be more than a latte.
Click to expand...


There's one in australia, but no one knows who owns it, there's no ADR here for them so it's only been sighted with a dealer plate and only ever being driven, i don't think anyone has seen the thing parked up anywhere, it's somewhere in Melbourne and it's quite notorious, actually seeing it on the road is a big thing.
 
Vbreeze said:
What Craig said and review the entire business model to include the TCO of the car. Profits are typically not made on new cars almost no company does. Profits come from upgrades repairs, services, etc etc. I wonder what it actually costs to own a Bugatti not including hookers. Must be more than a latte.
Click to expand...

Apparently 2 days and $20k to change plugs and coils
www.carscoops.com

Changing A Bugatti Veyron's Spark Plugs And Ignition Coils Costs Over $20,000 | Carscoops

The $20,000 repair job on a Bugatti Veyron's spark plugs and coil packs is a two-day task that requires a skilled mechanic's full attention
www.carscoops.com www.carscoops.com
 
Evoex said:
Heya,

Congrats on the bike!

I'm taking delivery of my SP2 tomorrow and i'd love to pick your brain on cleaning it. The plan is to drive it immediately for an Xpel Stealth complete wrap and ceramic.

Feel free to PM, any advice would be appreciated!
Click to expand...

Got a sp2 and xpel stealth and ceramic on the carbon rims. Great investment to protect it.
 
I would concur that the 2022 V4S is probably the "better" buy however the SP for 30k is pretty darn close and of course will have a few goodies which will set the bike apart from other variants.

Similarly, I have been slowly modding my 2020 V4S and have spent a bit of money to change out things which don't increase it's value except the importance or value to me. I would never buy the base model of a V4 unless I could swap out all the base items ASAP.

Supply chains are so ...... right now you couldn't get FGRT forks until late August/September 2023, and many other parts are just not easy to come by and or have long ... lead times. So buying something with a "higher" level of cool parts already installed is a win in my book.

Happy shopping!
 
Factor in that if you have to insure the bike the MSRP will have a say in how much that costs.

I would absolutely buy a base V4 if my hand was forced to make a pick tomorrow. The rear shock is the primary offender for a novice to early intermediate (track) rider and isn't hard to replace.
 
I just bought a 23 V4 base for track use. I couldn’t find anything suitable used at a decent price when I ordered it in March. I went with Ktech for the suspension partly due to long lead times on some of the Ohlins kit as some have mentioned. It seemed to me like I could make it the way I wanted for less, and there wasn’t anything on the up model bikes I couldn’t upgrade to if I wanted. If there was a SP2 for $30k I would have bought that instead, but the only SP2 I saw was used and $38k.
 

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