new module from rapid bike just came in

jarelj said:

Absolutely, if you read your factory warranty guidelines here's the section on Exclusions from warranty coverage:

Exclusions to the Limited Warranty
The following are excluded from the coverage of the terms and conditions of the limited warranty:
1) All off-road and competition designated model Ducati motorcycles;
2) Any Ducati motorcycle that is engaged in competitive racing or related use;
3) Any Ducati motorcycle that is rented for use or utilized for any rental purposes;
4) Defects or damage caused by alterations to the motorcycle outside of Ducati factory specifications;
5) Total loss, salvage, junk, or scrap motorcycles, defined as follows:
A) The vehicle is declared to be a total loss by a financial or insurance company; or
B) The vehicle is rebuilt after being declared to be a total loss by a financial or insurance company; or
C) The vehicle is issued a certificate of title, salvage title, or similar title indicating that the motorcycle is designated as "salvage,"
"junk," "rebuilt," "scrap," or the equivalent thereof


It's generally understood by Ducati dealers and Ducati North America that normal track day use is not considered "competitive racing or related use" but once you put a number plate on it and line up on a racing grid, you are now outside of the warranty.

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Does the burden of proof of track use lie with the dealer???

Good to know!
Thanks for the info.... obviously I never bothered to read it.

sunshinestate said:

. If I had an 1199 it would prob be in wet mode always lol..

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BS

Both bikes on the street are very similar under a 100mph. Both top out in second gear around a 100 and both get there in almost identical time. Only in third does the 1199 start walking away from the 899 on the faster corners.

I have more metal in me then you no scuses please.


You would be better off with the suspension of the 1199S for street then the slight power difference on the 899.

Stw said:

Does the burden of proof of track use lie with the dealer???

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More like all of the RISK lies with the dealer!

jarelj said:

More like all of the RISK lies with the dealer!

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Hahah... I hear you...I am just curious how Ducati/Dealership dwcline a warranty claim based on race usage.... Proof seems like a hard thing...If the owner covers his tracks (no pun intended)

jarelj said:

So it's just shooting for an AF ratio at a given RPM? What about throttle position, does it wire into the RBW throttle somehow too?

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Jarel,

My further understanding is that the Rapid Bike Race (RB Race) unit is wired to receive the same or similar information as the ECU, meaning it monitors throttle position, crank position, wheel speed, etc. The RBW on the Pani is supposed to dictate the sensitivity and rate of throttle butterfly opening, so fueling adjustments would seem to be independent of that operation. The RB Race unit supposedly differs from Bazzaz and PCV in that its internally developed custom map is not done by a tuner doing a single run in a single gear. Since the unit is designed to adjust fuel and ignition maps based on the aforementioned ECU info, its tuning is specific to every gear, throttle position, engine RPM, etc. Lastly, the RB Race (and maybe the RB Evo, not sure) is not bike-specific like PCV and Bazzaz units. The software/firmware is upgradable so if you buy it for you Pani today but in a couple years get the Uber-Honda V4 or Uber-Yamaha Liter+ Triple () you can remove the RB Race and use it on your new bike with updated software/firmware from Rapid Bike HQ.

The more I learn about it, the more it does seem like the next advance in tuning, similar to the advances/advantages I saw with Bazzaz Z-Fi over PCV, but even more so. If they could also break the DTC code and allow for customizable DTC based on tire size/profile/thrust-slip then it would really be something!

Yaman obviously raves about his recent experience with it on track with his personal 1199. Of course, he has the full dual wide-band O2 sensor setup for the most accurate and fastest tuning. His previous experience was with his 1098 where he first tried the Bazzaz Z-Fi and tuning on his own Dynojet 250i before deciding it was not comprehensive enough and getting a Microtec ECU. He says the tuning and results with the RB Race is the next level better than that, so I'm intrigued for sure.

bikenamenumber said:

Where do you plan to mount that puppy?

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Yaman has mounted the 2 units he's installed in the void where the exhaust servo motor was, as both bikes had Termi slips. Rapid Bike recommends mounting it next to the servo motor on the right side of the bike when it is still present. I saw Yaman's install on his personal bike earlier this week and thought it was an interesting location. Very clean and you had to really look for it with a flashlight.

Supposedly it is very simple to uninstall as well, similar to a PCV in that there are no permanent changes and when removed you would be hard pressed to know it was ever there in the first place...

Stw said:

Hahah... I hear you...I am just curious how Ducati/Dealership dwcline a warranty claim based on race usage.... Proof seems like a hard thing...If the owner covers his tracks (no pun intended)

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Well, pretty much every racing organization publishes names and bikes in their race results. And pretty much every race bike is safety-wired and has obvious signs of racing use. And pretty much all racers in a local area all know each other. So that would be fairly complicated I'd imagine.

jarelj said:

Well, pretty much every racing organization publishes names and bikes in their race results. And pretty much every race bike is safety-wired and has obvious signs of racing use. And pretty much all racers in a local area all know each other. So that would be fairly complicated I'd imagine.

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So your 899 has no warranty???

jarelj said:

Well, pretty much every racing organization publishes names and bikes in their race results. And pretty much every race bike is safety-wired and has obvious signs of racing use. And pretty much all racers in a local area all know each other. So that would be fairly complicated I'd imagine.

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And then there is that whole "honor" thing. I remember growing up with the ethos of "if it's on you, then own it."

Sadly that thinking appears to have gone the way of the dodo.

outhouse said:

BS

Both bikes on the street are very similar under a 100mph. Both top out in second gear around a 100 and both get there in almost identical time. Only in third does the 1199 start walking away from the 899 on the faster corners.

I have more metal in me then you no scuses please.


You would be better off with the suspension of the 1199S for street then the slight power difference on the 899.

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This post was not for a dick measuring contest. congrats you got more metal lmfao. Want a cookie now? I mean really??? You want an audience on here to stand up and clap for ya? SMH....

Stw said:

So your 899 has no warranty???

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Well, I don't race mine, just track days. I race my Ninja 300!

outhouse said:

BS

Both bikes on the street are very similar under a 100mph. Both top out in second gear around a 100 and both get there in almost identical time. Only in third does the 1199 start walking away from the 899 on the faster corners.

I have more metal in me then you no scuses please.


You would be better off with the suspension of the 1199S for street then the slight power difference on the 899.

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Perhaps you should make all my life decisions for me.. I'm about to take a big ...... should I wipe back to front or front to back? Perhaps you can fly on over here and help me lower my loaf to the water so I get no splash back on my ass.. ;P

sunshinestate said:

Def look forward to the 25th to have the bike dyno. Curious what my money invested did HP wise for my mini pani.

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How about that dyno?

RedScare said:

How about that dyno?

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Yea thats what I came here for.

The dick measuring contest can be held in the mens shower, not here. Kthx.

RedScare said:

How about that dyno?

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Don't know if sunshinestate ever did get his dyno, but I had a back-to-back dyno run done a couple months ago. By back-to-back, I mean that I had 2 dyno runs done within minutes of each other, where one was with the RapidBike Race module and its self-optimized map over 2,000 miles of street riding, and the other dyno run was with the RapidBike Race module completely bypassed, meaning the only fuel/ignition mapping was being done by the Termignoni Slip-On Upmap that came with my slip-ons. My bike's only other engine mod is an MWR HE filter (without adjustment plate).

This dyno chart shows the up to 10 horsepower difference all along the midrange, and how the top-end gains are sustained all the way to redline vs. dropping off for the last thousand RPM or so (RapidBike Race module self-tuning vs. Termignoni Slip-On Upmap).



This dyno chart shows the same 2 runs but with the AFR which you can see is much improved over the last half of the rev-range, resulting in the significant midrange and top-end gains.



If I wanted to tune to the dyno conditions, I could make adjustments in the RapidBike interface to lean out the lower mid-range more to keep close to a 13.2 AFR. However, from what I've researched, the airflow at speed is much different than static on a dyno that doesn't replicate ram-air effect. The bike feels so strong and smooth through the powerband when riding it that I'll leave it well enough alone. The only thing that would make the map even better would be more self-tuning during a track day, which I am now planning on doing many of this fall/winter (track season in Florida).

So, to confirm, all you did was install the RapidBike Race unit, with its map, and let it self-optimize as you rode?

I've heard that you need to have an individual map done for each cylinder if you have the MWR intake. Does the RapidBike Race unit's self-optimization take care of that?

Thanks

RedScare said:

So, to confirm, all you did was install the RapidBike Race unit, with its map, and let it self-optimize as you rode?

I've heard that you need to have an individual map done for each cylinder if you have the MWR intake. Does the RapidBike Race unit's self-optimization take care of that?

Thanks

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Yes, I had my dealer in Orlando (The Cycle Pro) install the RapidBike Race module, and the system builds fueling maps (in the RB Race module, it also provides new ignition mapping) for each individual cylinder based on signals from each OEM narrowband O2 sensor that comes OEM on the bike. There are multiple base maps provided by RapidBike depending upon your accessories (filter, full vs. slip-on exhaust, etc.) that you select upon first installing the RB module.

You will notice some improvement immediately from these base maps, especially in the low-rpm running, and then it gets better as the system builds maps to bring the AFR to the ideal 13.2 AFR. The system learns while the engine is running at various throttle openings throughout the rev-range. So the best way of getting this information quickly is to do a track day, assuming the circuit will have all types of corners so you can cover the entire rev-range at all throttle openings from 0-100%.

I still (!) haven't been able to take my 1199 to the track but ride it most weekends 100-250 miles. So I think there will be even more improvements to my AFR dyno plot shown above when I get to wring it out at the track and the system populates more precise fuel/ignition map cells as it is receives AFR information from the O2 sensors. It's an amazingly precise system that can alter one cell to the next as little as 1% and as much as you set the limits to do. Mine are set at 8% max adjustment. Once in a while I'll plug in the cable and open the software to accept the changes so the map starts from a new zero and continues making adjustments based on actual conditions occuring real time in your motor - based on temperature, humidity, fuel, and all the factors that affect AFR readings at the O2 sensor. Lastly, with the race you can add a switch to select between 2 maps, such as a rain map or race/pump gas.

Pretty damn cool and the way it should be done, IMHO.

I wish my boys would get the HD GoPro video on Youtube so I can show you guys the RB module at work on track. She accelerates like a monster and get over 180mph on the back straight at PBIR.

I LOVE my bike with th RB race module. She runs soooo smooth now. The cylinders are working together. I wish I had the RB module when I bought my bike.. But I probably wouldn't have appreciated it as much as I do now.