Panigale V4 Swingarm Position
- Thread starter RickD996
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Looking forward to hearing how this goes as I've considered doing this as well.
If you lower the pivot and raise the motor do you not also raise the riders height. So if you move the pivot down 2 (and the motor up 2) if the bike cg (400 lbs) is at 16 inches and the seat is at 32 inches and you weigh 200 lbs wouldn't that be like raising the rear 4 (sort of). On the rocker equipped superbikes you could use the full range of the eccentric to mess with the wheelbase more readily. You'll have fun figuring this out. Take notes. If you raise the pivot does this help keep the front end down?
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Does dropping the pivot necessarily raise the motor? It’s my understanding it doesn’t. Certain years of the rsv4 have adjustable pivots and adjustable motor mount points.
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From my understanding, the swingarm pivots main purpose is anti-squat. Basically, the higher the pivot compared to the rear axle the more anti-squat. But there’s always compromises and balances that need to be considered. Too much anti-squat can cause the front to wheelie. It also depends on gearing and where the bike is in its travel.
www.cycleworld.com
Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that with more preload and therefore less static sag I get better more predictable drive because the anti-squat effect is more pronounced.
How Motorcycle Swingarm Adjustments Impact Traction
Using motorcycle swingarm angle, chain pull and antisquat to maximize traction.
www.cycleworld.com
Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that with more preload and therefore less static sag I get better more predictable drive because the anti-squat effect is more pronounced.
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My thinking is that running a 15t (more torque) and -1 (higher pivot) would be too much anti-squat and be more wheelie prone or tend to run wide on exit. So they settled on +1 for the V4R since it’s right in the middle of the settings.
Anyone have experience w running a 15t on a 22 V4? Seems anti-squat with this combo would be really exacerbated.
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I don’t think there’d be a cg change with just a swingarm pivot adjustment. I say this bc seat height is the same between 22 V4 and 23 V4R. If there’s a difference in cg I’d imagine it’d be subtle. Raising ride height (by shock length or rear axle eccentric) would definitely increase both cg and anti-squat.
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I thought the pivot raised or lowered (changing swingarm angle) with no (or minimal) impact on engine height (from ground), ride height, or CG.
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You're right Craig. Engine stays in the same position. Just angle of thrust from swingarm changes.
CoG stays same, as you would potentially adjust ride height to same as before swingarm position adjustment.
I don't feel the bike wheelies much anyway, depends on setup I guess.
It does seem to effect turning, and stability. +3 gives amazing stability, but hard to maintain corner speed. -3 much better mid corner speed, but not as good on throttle and brakes. -3 faster and easier around a track. Can be adjusted to suit individual tracks.
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They are though I just put the 15t front on mine, definitely made the handling different when I moved that rear eccentric back to accommodate the gear change, bike seems to over steer at the same speeds mid-corner. Not sure that’s a bad thing as it is making me push for more roll speed to hold the same line.
From my understanding, the swingarm pivots main purpose is anti-squat. Basically, the higher the pivot compared to the rear axle the more anti-squat. But there’s always compromises and balances that need to be considered. Too much anti-squat can cause the front to wheelie. It also depends on gearing and where the bike is in its travel.
How Motorcycle Swingarm Adjustments Impact Traction
Using motorcycle swingarm angle, chain pull and antisquat to maximize traction.
Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that with more preload and therefore less static sag I get better more predictable drive because the anti-squat effect is more pronounced.
That was an interesting article. He comments that changing the pivot acts like changing the ride height but faster. So I was completely backwards you get the effects of changes in swingarm angle with way less effect on cg.
So you adjust the rake and cg, by rear height or fork location whatever, to get it to turn in like you want and then if you find you've screwed up the drive (too much oversteer) you use the swingarm pivot to correct with minimal changes to the rake/cg. Handy that.
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It’s like having a triple tree with eccentrics that lets you change the offset on the front end without changing the rake so you get the same affects as changing the rake without having to do so.
If you have a triple tree with eccentrics that change the offset and that adjustable pivot point swingarm you have a very adjustable bike.
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2020 PV4 base with full aftermarket Ohlins, track use.
I have the quotation for all the parts. Its not the cheapest modification, but not much more than a pair of Pirelli slicks!
The Ducati dealer parts person said to have a word with the guys in the workshop before going ahead.
Their view was that it was best to leave it as... the adjustable pivot was designed to work with other adjustments that a race team have (yokes and headstock I assume) and that the V4R had it to homologation so this could be available to race teams.
I mentioned that the 2022 bikes have a different pivot from the 2020 model and are (through reviews and experience on this forum) easier to ride. He said that the 22 bikes have a lot of differences in springs, shock length, etc as well as different electronics which all contribute to the improved feel.
To be frank, I find the bike good on track. I'm definitely not in the fast group and not shredding tyres... but "you don't know what you don't know" and maybe the +1 position would help mid corner (not that I feel it is particularly lacking atm) and give me a little more capability. (I'm getting coaching, so I fully accept that it's me, not the bike that needs tuning)
I don't collect bling and bolt ons, but do like mods that have a track heritage, even if I can't fully exploit them lol.
Any thoughts?
(Nearly at page 3!!)
Thanks
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I've ordered the parts for a 2018 V4, to adjust the swingarm.
It won't give the same range as a V4R, but we'll take measurements once installed.
Your dealer does know what they're doing (which is fair enough, they're not a race team or chassis shop), and don't want to get involved by the sounds of it.
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