Pistons and Rings after 27,500 miles

Remember reading my 1990 GSX-R 750 manual which stated the "usable life" of the engine was 33,000 miles or something close to that.

With 27k on yours I would assume now the "cough" is the result of a few things. Firstly, this could imply the cam chain is stretched. The bottom end is probably ok with the plain bearings, but the engine "cough" reminds me of a bearing going bad.

The maintenance you have religiously performed has done great work to preserve the cam surfaces (I assume and other rotating parts) but the fact is the entire engine is tired and old.

Hopefully you can find a replacement quickly! I followed your post on ADV Rider while I was sitting in a box in Afghanistan last year. I finally got my 1199 S like you but 2 years later.

I wish I had the ability to help you in your cause, but as a full time student now I am tapped.

Please keep us up to date on what a real mechanic has to say about your motor and I won't offer up any more of my speculation, though I bet the cam gear and chains need major checking.

Cheers!

I repeat the theory I had from the beginning. That is electrical.
That bike has the top end brand new, and since they had the engine teared down to replace sleeves and pistons, I am sure they adjusted the cam chain tensioner just fine.

Not to argue or to diagnose a condition by a video or conjecture.

The "cough" certainly could be an electrical issue, shorting or weak spark etc.

However, the "cough" does imply some other interesting theories.

Looking at the old parts it is clear that there is a mechanical issue. Since I'm convinced that A.-H. didn't tweak the engine it's probably overfueling.

fireman1251 said:

Looking at the old parts it is clear that there is a mechanical issue. Since I'm convinced that A.-H. didn't tweak the engine it's probably overfueling.

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But the bike is doing exactly the same thing after basically the whole top end has been replaced.

Spark ? Not mechanical

NOLA

It's not mechanical. If it was mechanical, it'd be happening all the time. They put in new heads and a new ECU. Problem solved. Then ~750 miles later, the problem comes back.

They've found all sorts of issues tearing the bike down and putting it back together. Unfortunately none of those problems were causing any issues.

New pistons and rings go in, everything is reset. Problem goes away. 600 miles later, the problem is back. If it was a bearing or the timing chain the issues would be consistent.

Reset the ECU/APC/TPS/FRSTXSSSL and the problem goes away. Then when the 'newborn' ECU factors in the data its receiving from some fouled/...... up sensor, the problems begin anew.

Question is--what sensor is ...... up? Or is it a pin on the connection to the ECU? No clue. Even if the sensor was fixed it'd probably take another 20 start/ride cycles before it corrected itself. The solution is most likely to bypass the stock fueling completely. I seem to recall Ben Spies complaining about the problems with ECUs that "learn," too, so I'm not alone. But we're both without a ride at this point....

Oh yeah--and let's not forget the damage to the head and the pistons/rings were most likely due to the airbox not being sealed. The problem existed before that ever happened.

The ECU has been replaced, so that's hardly the culprit.
The ECU control RPM at idle.
High RPM could be that the ECU "thinks" the engine is running at different RPM due to bad sensor feed, or that the ECU actually wants the engine operating at that RPM because of other signals telling her to do so.
Since dashboard reading seems consistent with actual engine RPM, I'd exclude the former.
Could even be that the ECU knows that engine is running too high, but it ran out of compensation feedback to overcome it.

JHTmcrider said:

Remember reading my 1990 GSX-R 750 manual which stated the "usable life" of the engine was 33,000 miles or something close to that.

With 27k on yours I would assume now the "cough" is the result of a few things. Firstly, this could imply the cam chain is stretched. The bottom end is probably ok with the plain bearings, but the engine "cough" reminds me of a bearing going bad.

The maintenance you have religiously performed has done great work to preserve the cam surfaces (I assume and other rotating parts) but the fact is the entire engine is tired and old.

Hopefully you can find a replacement quickly! I followed your post on ADV Rider while I was sitting in a box in Afghanistan last year. I finally got my 1199 S like you but 2 years later.

I wish I had the ability to help you in your cause, but as a full time student now I am tapped.

Please keep us up to date on what a real mechanic has to say about your motor and I won't offer up any more of my speculation, though I bet the cam gear and chains need major checking.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

...., I got 60k out of a very abused 1989 FZR motor. And this ain't 1990! Metallurgy, CAD Design, CNC machining should have increased the reliability significantly despite the higher performance capabilities.

But .... man, I'm honored and a little humbled. Happy my ADV R/R made living in a box in Afghanistan a little more bearable. Shoot me a PM with your address, I'd be happy to send something your way. And congrats on being both a tapped out student AND an 1199 S owner. It was that little FZR motor that could that got me through school.

No update on this Anti?

I got my 1199S put back together for the replacement for input and output shaft in the transmission and they put in a new set of piston rings while they had the whole engine apart. Now when they put it back together they update some software and now said they are experiencing a high idle issue they can't resolve. Fml I had all most recent updates done last fall.

Hope they find out what it is. Didn't I read that you started to have that problem once they did a software update in the early threads?

I'll le you know if they figure it out.

Thx

Hey AH,
Not sure if you've already tried this, but next time your Pani plays up, could you try disconnecting the battery for a few minutes (10-15), reconnect and see if it makes any difference?


Cheers
LJ

Whoopazz said:

No update on this Anti?

I got my 1199S put back together for the replacement for input and output shaft in the transmission and they put in a new set of piston rings while they had the whole engine apart. Now when they put it back together they update some software and now said they are experiencing a high idle issue they can't resolve. Fml I had all most recent updates done last fall.

Hope they find out what it is. Didn't I read that you started to have that problem once they did a software update in the early threads?

I'll le you know if they figure it out.

Thx

Click to expand...

Uh oh! I'll send you a PM. I can't recall exactly when I started having that problem, but it's never been clear what actually caused it...or why it's still doing it.

littlejohn--Will do--and will let you know.

AntiHero said:

Round the world, yo! I'll stay in Europe as long as I can, but due to the delay (if y'all recall I was supposed to be gone in early May), I won't have enough time to cover all I want to cover in Europe. So the plan will be--get my ass there, ride north while the weather is good, then hunker down in, oh, I dunno, Spain, Portugal, Southern Italy, Greece or ??? for the Winter, then cruise the Trans Siberian highway, then Japan, then back to the US. Will definitely take an excursion to Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam, but getting a 1200cc bike through those countries is a pain in the arse.

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Make sure to visit us in The Netherlands. You are welcome. I live close to Amsterdam.

AntiHero said:

Well the problem started at 22k miles, so I'd hope that's not the lifespan of the pistons. I'm inclined to go with HotIce, but there didn't seem to be any scoring of the liners. Could that damage could happen without leaving some scars there?

Oh and now we're at 28.5k miles. (Someone has to be at the tip of the spear.)

Oh it was the vertical cylinder piston that took the hit. Vertical cylinder also happens to be the cylinder the tech noticed was sucking in all the crankcase vapors.

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Is this on your R?

Panigale1199R said:

Make sure to visit us in The Netherlands. You are welcome. I live close to Amsterdam.

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Sweet! Thank you, I will ping you when I know I'll be in / around Amsterdam.

jcbertin: I only have an S. 2012.

Did you get your new R already?

Dennis what is the dealer saying? There is to much PR on this thread alone to let Ducati ignore it. You have praised them since day one.

I'm curious because this won't be the first one or the last one with the issue. Ducati needs an R&D team on this.

No new R, HotIce. Still the same S. But I'm getting closer....

SOULRIDER said:

Dennis what is the dealer saying? There is to much PR on this thread alone to let Ducati ignore it. You have praised them since day one.

I'm curious because this won't be the first one or the last one with the issue. Ducati needs an R&D team on this.

Click to expand...

They are working on a solution to get me on my way. I should have all the details tomorrow (hopefully). There's already another forum member with a high idle mystery that his dealer can't solve, but not enough information yet to know if it's the same as mine, despite the obvious similarities.

Dennis, you still thinking its a rogue sensor or wiring harness ? I seriously doubt its mechanical or CPU at this point.

NOLA

Agreed, NOLA. I still think it's a sensor or a connector. Going to tear my bike down one last time tonight and have some new news hopefully today or tomorrow.