Plastic pieces found in oil

endodoc said:

Ok Halo2, Im just giving you a bad time. The correct answer is, yes. The Corse pump pieces are steel. I have a few sets of them along with the pump. Here is a pic of the stock gears and a pic of the Corse gears. If you really want a set, PM me.

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endodoc have you experienced these stock gears failing yourself or do you think this failure is not that common?
I'm guessing these gears are made of this material to keep engine noise down for noise requirements?

No I have never failed one. I have seen 2 water pump gears fail.I have seen the plastic pieces. To me they appear very uniform and lack tell tale signs of something breaking or shearing. I found a two of them at maybe 4000mi on the stock motor along with a little metal. Im at 11000 miles on that motor now and have not seen any plastic or metal since. The 1299 motor we had built has never shown signs of anything. That motor has a bunch of Corse parts in it. I think there is a lot of plastic in the stock motor. Is it bad? doesn't seem to be but then again this is a chat board and you do not hear everything so who knows. I think if the motor is clean, your fine. With the filter system and screen in the pickup, your pretty good to go unless something breaks. Im sure there are guys here that have had oil pump issues and I am just guessing that if you get something in the pump, the plastic will probably fail. I don't know. In any event, anytime something breaks at a high rotational speed, its going to be messy. The race stuff is nice but you have to treat it and maintain is accordingly.

The message I got through friends having connections to Ducati dealers and mechanics was that the plastic pieces had been used during assembly as some sort of support or distance keepers. Nobody seems to be knowing or willing to share exact details but all are saying these bits are no concern.
My remaining concern is only the ambiguity: if so harmless what is the high level of confidentiality for?

The standard 1299 and 1299S has the steel oil pump gears. I'm going for the full RS oil strainer gauze for my next endurance bikes, and if anyone has run the Scott oil filters, I'd like to hear from you. I think I'm going to go to a dry clutch set-up, too. It appears contamination in the oil from clutch debris and a pressure relief valve calibrated too low allowing micro particles to enter the main oil gallery may have been most of the problem.

Blue Guy. Have you guys actually run an assay test on the oil and found that clutch friction material was an issue? Obviously any expended material from the discs or plates is going to end in the lubrication system but I'm wondering to what extent that debris is problematic. Also I'm wondering if there are differences in friction disc material between manufacturers that would be more problematic. Additionally, rider idiosyncrasies and frequency of service will effect the situation. Regardless, the dry clutch is the way to go. I may also toy with some sort of external filter system on a spare motor I have here. I posted some pics of plastic and metal gears. The plastic gears are I believe on the 899 or 959 motor. The metal gears on the larger bikes look the same to what Ducati has as their "Corse" pieces except that the Corse parts carry the "no you can't have this" DC numbers. Probably the same parts.

endodoc said:

Blue Guy. Have you guys actually run an assay test on the oil and found that clutch friction material was an issue? Obviously any expended material from the discs or plates is going to end in the lubrication system but I'm wondering to what extent that debris is problematic. Also I'm wondering if there are differences in friction disc material between manufacturers that would be more problematic. Additionally, rider idiosyncrasies and frequency of service will effect the situation. Regardless, the dry clutch is the way to go. I may also toy with some sort of external filter system on a spare motor I have here. I posted some pics of plastic and metal gears. The plastic gears are I believe on the 899 or 959 motor. The metal gears on the larger bikes look the same to what Ducati has as their "Corse" pieces except that the Corse parts carry the "no you can't have this" DC numbers. Probably the same parts.

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I'll have the oil and fuel tests back next week, and I'll see what they say. One of my riders was a bit brutal on the downshifting, which is where the STM or EVR clutch helps a lot, and I suspect that, plus lousy fuel (we have to run the circuits fuel, and it's some bioethanol slop they flog at outrageous price...) allowing poor combustion (piston crown glazed, but no pock-marks of detonation...) and the eventual contamination of the oil via the main oil gallery when the pressure relief valve opens (which is like, always...) ended the life of my motor. It's still possible that it was a duff con rod bearing shell, but ID'ing that is going to be impossible.

The 1199RS gears are superfinished, but look about the same weight as the standard steel gears. I was anticipating finding a snapped oil pump shaft, so I'm a bit gutted to have found, apart from the bearing which committed hari-kiri, an engine extremely well put together, and that bottom end is mighty.
On the older RS Desmoquattro and Testastretta we used to block off the oil bypass and run different high-flow filters, with regular oil changes, but the mechanical debris was negligible with a Nova or RS gearbox and some careful hand-finishing of rotating parts, plus, of course, the dry clutch.

I'll PM you the oil results. All my engines are going to get that strainer from now on, though. It looks like the sump is slightly deeper to accommodate the higher stacking of two micro filters (155 microns and 280 microns) and the modified pick up housing, and they run a .4mm alloy sump gasket, too.

I have a late 1199 engine here which has the plastic oil pump gears. I was a bit dismayed when they went back to the steel ones, but figured they'd have ensured it wouldn't be a problem.

I'm optimistic like that.

Somebody is mixing up here something. Maybe it's me

Just compared 1199S with 1299S gear part numbers....


OIL PUMP

1199S 1299S
19 Idle Gear 17410601A 17410601A
25 Gear, Pump Driven 17410611A 17410611A


WATER PUMP

1199S 1299S
2 Pump Gear 17410511A 17410511A
12 Pump Gear 17410501A 17410501A

But there is no difference between 1299S and 1199S.

i found 6 of this plastic in oil pan 1299 2015 15k km . i did not start the engine seens . as any one road the bike after he found the plastic pieces ? w h a t are they?

Post pictures

or what you could do is insert a inspection camera down the oil filler plug and see if you can get to the water pump plastic gear area but may have trouble getting past the clutch basket.

i will post pictures continued . the pieces i found are exactly like fastech post from 2013 on page 1

Then its fine, apart of the assembly process which accidentally got left behind (see earlier)

Thanks its a relif. My dealer contact ducati a weak ago no answer from them

hay . i want to share with you guys how ducati relating abut the plastic pieces in the oil . first they put the responsibility on me for changing oil bymaysaf and not by the dealer. then i got emaill that say so you change the oil byyoursalf bla bla ......and after 14 days i get phone call to get to the dealer. when i get there the diractor manger takes me out to the street and talls me not officily that he knows what this plastic pieces are but he cant tell me and i can ride the bike . maybe it nothing maybe not but when i pay 55k us dolar for base panigale in israel i m not expect to find nothing in oil drain . i do expect from ducati to take full responsibility for this phenomenon they selling lexury bike for ton of money .atleast dont put the blame on me

55K for a 1299 base, they should give you free services for life.

You changed the oil yourself so ducati don't have to do a thing.

Warranty will be not honoured for motorcycles repaired by unofficial Dealer networks, for improper use, for bikes with non-genuine parts, for damages incurred from accidents, overloads, negligent use, or improper maintenance. Further details are detailed in the Warranty/pre-delivery booklet, attached to every new motorcycle.

The reason they don't want to tell you is because like previous owners they pulled apart the motor and not found a thing wrong.

If it was the gear assembly it would be sheered teeth, not 1st pic.

They find the plastic piecec on 1st oil change in the dealer place see earlier. Ducati got an issu they have to fix it. A new oil and original filter are good for the engine new oil dont brake nothing

Halo 2 my warranty is finish. I just have to know what plastic piecec doing in my oil. Its not normal

They don't have to do anything out of warranty

GripnRip said:

they are bearing guides for engine assembly.. ducati claims they harmless but it still freaked me out. I talked to the one rep (eric something) at the ducati revs day at NYST.

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many thanks . i did sennd the plastic pieces to the dwpartmanent of transportion in my country .pieces in the engine are life a death issu . i ll keep you inform