Some track day prep questions

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This indicator is quite misleading and only gives very rough approximation. You usually need to look at it in combination with other things.

Some tracks have steep drops when you on braking while straight, e.g. brands hatch T1
That’s not the case at Most or Brno where I ride.

I’m not sure what can be determined from the travel indicator regarding braking without actually knowing what the suspension settings are… I’d have thought the rider could be braking very hard with lots of preload or brake lightly with less preload and get to the same place? Anyway, let’s not have pages of discussion about it…

One of the things I’m working on is trying to keep the throttle open all the way to the brake markers and in some places using later brake markers as I’m getting more comfortable with it. I’m braking harder than I was and I simply wanted to check if it was too low… 🫣 As long as it isn’t then that’s fine. 👍
 
That’s not the case at Most or Brno where I ride.

I’m not sure what can be determined from the travel indicator regarding braking without actually knowing what the suspension settings are… I’d have thought the rider could be braking very hard with lots of preload or brake lightly with less preload and get to the same place? Anyway, let’s not have pages of discussion about it…

One of the things I’m working on is trying to keep the throttle open all the way to the brake markers and in some places using later brake markers as I’m getting more comfortable with it. I’m braking harder than I was and I simply wanted to check if it was too low… 🫣 As long as it isn’t then that’s fine. 👍

There’s typically 5-10 mm of dead space in the travel that never gets used. To find out the full usable length, unscrew the fork top caps (while the bike is supported at the headstock and wheel removed) then push the fork up to max travel
 
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That’s not the case at Most or Brno where I ride.

I’m not sure what can be determined from the travel indicator regarding braking without actually knowing what the suspension settings are… I’d have thought the rider could be braking very hard with lots of preload or brake lightly with less preload and get to the same place? Anyway, let’s not have pages of discussion about it…

One of the things I’m working on is trying to keep the throttle open all the way to the brake markers and in some places using later brake markers as I’m getting more comfortable with it. I’m braking harder than I was and I simply wanted to check if it was too low… 🫣 As long as it isn’t then that’s fine. 👍

Have you not set your sag for starters?
 
There’s typically 5-10 mm of dead space in the travel that never gets used. To find out the full usable length, unscrew the fork top caps (while the bike is supported at the headstock and wheel removed) then push the fork up to max travel
The end of the travel is the air gap/air spring so final length in use is determined by that. If you're collapsing the fork fully on hard braking you'll feel it. Looks normal to me. Ultimately to go fast you have to learn to set your own bike up. The ability to translate feel (ass and palms) to damping and geometry changes is really the key to going fast.
 
The end of the travel is the air gap/air spring so final length in use is determined by that. If you're collapsing the fork fully on hard braking you'll feel it. Looks normal to me. Ultimately to go fast you have to learn to set your own bike up. The ability to translate feel (ass and palms) to damping and geometry changes is really the key to going fast.

Would rather err on the side of not using all the travel than using it all and riding the bump stop. Once your at bump stop you’ve run out of suspension
 
Mortals on sbk bikes that are using the entire stroke are doing so under hard braking with the bike straight up and down. That might move the indicator all the way down but in no way an accurate reference for how much of the stroke you re using the rest of the track. With data setup you can see this or you can stick a GoPro on your side fairings and watch the forks through out the lap.
 
Mortals on sbk bikes that are using the entire stroke are doing so under hard braking with the bike straight up and down. That might move the indicator all the way down but in no way an accurate reference for how much of the stroke you re using the rest of the track. With data setup you can see this or you can stick a GoPro on your side fairings and watch the forks through out the lap.

One of the features of Ohlin EC system is that you can separate braking damping (or support) from cornering damping. Plan to play with this at my next track day.
 
This may have been a thread here, I can't remember. There was some super fast high speed low drag person that went out on a 2021 with Ohlins EC active and from what I remember of the thread did really well. Interesting settings.

Basically, IIRC, they maxed out or near maxed out the dynamic settings which changes how much of an effect it has on the end setting as determined by whatever algorithm the EC is using. One would never notice the difference to dynamic settings in the paddock like one would in manual mode. You have to be riding and at more than a touring pace.

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Mortals on sbk bikes that are using the entire stroke are doing so under hard braking with the bike straight up and down. That might move the indicator all the way down but in no way an accurate reference for how much of the stroke you re using the rest of the track. With data setup you can see this or you can stick a GoPro on your side fairings and watch the forks through out the lap.

I’d imagine that data (or just the camera footage) would be quite interesting and informative.
 
Mortals on sbk bikes that are using the entire stroke are doing so under hard braking with the bike straight up and down. That might move the indicator all the way down but in no way an accurate reference for how much of the stroke you re using the rest of the track. With data setup you can see this or you can stick a GoPro on your side fairings and watch the forks through out the lap.

Exactly that
 
I thought it might be fun to open myself up to all sorts of abuse…

Last four corners were not taken at all correctly and I seem to have forgotten to change gear at the end. I think most of the lines are fairly close to where they should be though.

I need to carry more and therefore more speed but huge chunks of time can be saved by getting on the throttle sooner and harder, getting into full throttle far more often and keeping it there longer, etc.

Hopefully, I’ll be showing some improvements next weekend when I am back there.

I’m pleased with the data logging as it really shows in an obvious and visual way what you are doing (wrong).

 
That’s interesting @andyb

It doesn’t look like you are coming off the throttle much sooner than I am, but you’re carrying more more speed into the turns, so you will be braking harder, and particularly getting fully on the throttle a lot sooner.

Lines don’t look particularly different. No doubt more lean for higher entry and corner speed.

With regard to gears, don’t forget I am using OEM gearing.

Do you know roughly what time that lap was?

There’s a really cool view in the data analytics that shows a map of the circuit with your line but the line can show different colours to show braking force so you see how hard you are braking and where you let the brakes off, where you are using the throttle and how much, etc.
 
Think it’s a 2.18/19 lap

I’m sure I can get to low/mid 2:20s without scaring myself. I know my times are not quick but, on the positive side, I feel like I’m going slow and so I’m perfectly okay with moving things forward. I’m probably being overly cautious and progressing slower than I need to.

Your video was very useful. It’s a shame you don’t have the data on it, but I can see where the time is coming from regardless. I’d guess you’re on full throttle more often and sooner than I am. About 10kph more on turn one, which is what the instructor said I could carry with more lean.

It’s really quite odd that I’ve improved my body position, but I’m carrying 10° less lean. I’m not taking advantage of the technical improvement.
 
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That’s interesting @andyb

It doesn’t look like you are coming off the throttle much sooner than I am, but you’re carrying more more speed into the turns, so you will be braking harder, and particularly getting fully on the throttle a lot sooner.

Lines don’t look particularly different. No doubt more lean for higher entry and corner speed.

With regard to gears, don’t forget I am using OEM gearing.

Do you know roughly what time that lap was?

There’s a really cool view in the data analytics that shows a map of the circuit with your line but the line can show different colours to show braking force so you see how hard you are braking and where you let the brakes off, where you are using the throttle and how much, etc.

Watch it again. He's driving it out pretty hard, uses every bit of the exit in a couple of corners. I don't understand why they let him out there with the scooter club, blowing by them like they were parked.
 
Watch it again. He's driving it out pretty hard, uses every bit of the exit in a couple of corners. I don't understand why they let him out there with the scooter club, blowing by them like they were parked.

That’s exactly what I said about getting on the throttle sooner and harder. I’ve been told by a couple of instructors that I am overly cautious.
 
You’re not trail braking in any corner. And would turn up DTC to 6 and see if if it’s activating. Would then progressively decrease DTC until it’s only activating in a couple corners
 


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