Superbike smackdown 2012 Track

lsberrios1 · Jun 25, 2012

zvez said:
luis, you coming to barber this weekend?
sorry for the hijack!

OH GOD!

I just checked the weather forecast to see if it was gonna rain and it says that its supposed to be at 100* sat and sunday, feels like 109!!! Rather that than rain though. I might pull it off since my parents are stopping here for a few days and I know my old man would like to see me on track. So we might meet up there sunday.

GIrish · Jun 25, 2012

Phil said:
if one says, the bike was too skinny, that he couldn't hold on to it in the curves, it implies that he was going too slow, resulting in a lack of centrifugal force. so he had to hold himself, to avoid falling off the bike...

Nah that sounds more like an ergonomics and potentially, body position issue. If you're going slow in the turns you shouldn't have any trouble staying on the bike unless your body position is ridiculous.

husker1 · Jun 25, 2012

Good comments but handling issues, on both road and track, do seem to be an issue for some testers - maybe it is down to the riders and not the bike (so much). But the lap times don't lie - do they?

What I don't understand is how the "first ride" type reviews were all so positive and now, they are less so. For example, words like "epic" (UK Bike magazine) were being used. Was it because people were just comparing the Pani to the 1198, in the absence of the other superbikes? Was it the technology that was so dazzling? I don't know but it is just confusing.

Ultimately, I suppose reviews are opinions and can only be a guide: you pays your money and makes your choice, but in the end it's what YOU want and like that counts.

rm4two · Jun 25, 2012

husker1 said:
Good comments but handling issues, on both road and track, do seem to be an issue for some testers - maybe it is down to the riders and not the bike (so much).

Maybe maybe not, but those that are currently racing the bike and having success aren't complaining about any handling issues. Or maybe they did and got them sorted out? Either way, for the riding I do my Pani is fantastic!

husker1 · Jun 25, 2012

rm4two said:
Maybe maybe not, but those that are currently racing the bike and having success aren't complaining about any handling issues. Or maybe they did and got them sorted out? Either way, for the riding I do my Pani is fantastic!

That's true about the results. Although according to Rich Austin, there are problems with handling reported by some track and road racing teams - which goes back to my point about the rider.

In the end, your personal opinion is all that counts - reviews become meaningless.

SteveNunez · Jun 25, 2012

My point exactly.....the early reviews "GLOWED" with descriptions of "amazing" handling....only now to have magazine reviews spew talk of "handling problems".....I guess when Ducati is rolling out the big events like press intro track days, you don't want the be the journalist who tells Ducati they have a dud on their hands!
(I'm sure negative press would't be good for future advertising in your magazine- but the street cred would be spectacular!)

I really wish ONE at least ONE reviewer would have mentioned handling issues- I would have immense respect for a reviewer saying that while on a new model intro and have it backed up later by the other magazines.....what a moment to shine to the world wide audience of readers and viewers!

There's not a single review anywhere that I've been able to find, be-it print or video where the 1199 comes out on top of the open-class of sport bikes- not a single one!!!!!

Like the song says, "Don't believe the hype!"
(and yes I own one and do like it- but it's not leagues better than the 1198 it replaces despite the "Checkmate" campaign Ducati released.....it's a side-step upgrade with certain aspects worse!

Vicious · Jun 25, 2012

husker1 said:
Good comments but handling issues, on both road and track, do seem to be an issue for some testers - maybe it is down to the riders and not the bike (so much). But the lap times don't lie - do they?

What I don't understand is how the "first ride" type reviews were all so positive and now, they are less so. For example, words like "epic" (UK Bike magazine) were being used. Was it because people were just comparing the Pani to the 1198, in the absence of the other superbikes? Was it the technology that was so dazzling? I don't know but it is just confusing.

Funny you mention this. I work in the automotive industry. I meet with departmemnt heads of the marketing departments and Finance departments monthly. We kid about "specialized" departments on the books and their involvement. Funny how company owners change... "specialized" departments dissapear... and journalists accross the board change their verbage...all in one month. I notice the Honda (Deepest pockets) ranks better and better and barely changed the bike... but what would you do for a free bike? lol

lsberrios1 · Jun 25, 2012

SteveNunez said:
There's not a single review anywhere that I've been able to find, be-it print or video where the 1199 comes out on top of the open-class of sport bikes- not a single one!!!!!

!

Well this is true and somewhat dissapointing but the bike is still leaps better than the 1098 it replaces. There are reviews where it is rated better than the ape rsv4 which is pretty descent. It has never won over the s1000rr though. I think the bike is very capable and it is just missing on adjustments. I dont know, maybe they pulled it out wrong with their innovative thinking. I usually dont mind what reviewers say but 7 out of 9 is pretty bad.

Phl · Jun 25, 2012

GIrish said:
Nah that sounds more like an ergonomics and potentially, body position issue. If you're going slow in the turns you shouldn't have any trouble staying on the bike unless your body position is ridiculous.

right

i was referring to the "not so skinny guy with the beard" - he stated that...

Marcbc · Jun 25, 2012

SteveNunez said:
There's not a single review anywhere that I've been able to find, be-it print or video where the 1199 comes out on top of the open-class of sport bikes- not a single one!!!!!

Using the little memory I have, I cannot recall any Ducati motorbike coming out on top of any Euro test. Despite that, it is one of the very few bike companies that are having their best ever trading time!

They are doing something right, that is for sure.

husker1 · Jun 25, 2012

Marcbc said:
Using the little memory I have, I cannot recall any Ducati motorbike coming out on top of any Euro test. Despite that, it is one of the very few bike companies that are having their best ever trading time!

They are doing something right, that is for sure.

Very true. I suppose most of the crop of current superbikes are great bikes, and certainly beyond my current riding ability (he said optimistically); they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Ultimately, it boils down to what features you want and what you are prepared to live with.

zvez · Jun 25, 2012

the one actual review I had any thought would be good was the road racing world shootout, but ducati hamstrung by making them run factory tires and wouldn't let them do anything with the suspension (other than the on board adj.) That's the reason the bike came out 6th.

But it's a shame when Ducati set out to beat the bmw they seem to have failed in terms of performance across the board.

ttkarp · Jun 25, 2012

zvez said:
the one actual review I had any thought would be good was the road racing world shootout, but ducati hamstrung by making them run factory tires and wouldn't let them do anything with the suspension (other than the on board adj.) That's the reason the bike came out 6th.

But it's a shame when Ducati set out to beat the bmw they seem to have failed in terms of performance across the board.

It's true it was sixth, but remember the ZX10 and RSV4 were both broken, so it could have been worse. However, it's still near the top in horsepower, top in torque, and by far the lightest. You would think someone could find a set up that works in getting it around a track competitively.

rm4two · Jun 25, 2012

I find it interesting that these journalist say things like "The BMW is the bike I would chose if I was going racing". "It's the easiest bike to go fast on..." blah blah blah. Then you look at primer racing series world wide and they're basically no where to be found. In WSB BMW just won their first two races in 4 years. Is there even a KTM on the WSBK grid? Check AMA Superbike; Pegrim rides the only BMW that I know of? I think there're 2 KTM's (grid fillers). When Pegrim was riding the Ducati he was at the front challenging for wins and podiums. Now it's a good day when he finishes in the top 10. Most of the field are still riding Gixxers. I would think that if the BMW was so easy to ride fast and race (or KTM for that matter) the grid fillers would be on them? Exactly where are these bikes dominating? Someone please find me a series where this is happening?

ttkarp · Jun 25, 2012

The bikes in WSB are nothing like ours so I don't think you can draw any conclusions based on that series. AMA is much closer to production (but still probably not a good gauge) but those guys base it as much on financial considerations from the manufacturer as they do on the bike itself. The Honda won the shootout, yet they don't even participate in the AMA series. It's a lot about money and a little about performance when they pick their rides.

zvez · Jun 25, 2012

this is an exc. point, bmw as thrown tons of money on the bike in racing and yet it's only actually starting doing well in wsbk this season.

rm4two said:
I find it interesting that these journalist say things like "The BMW is the bike I would chose if I was going racing". "It's the easiest bike to go fast on..." blah blah blah. Then you look at primer racing series world wide and they're basically no where to be found. In WSB BMW just won their first two races in 4 years. Is there even a KTM on the WSBK grid? Check AMA Superbike; Pegrim rides the only BMW that I know of? I think there're 2 KTM's (grid fillers). When Pegrim was riding the Ducati he was at the front challenging for wins and podiums. Now it's a good day when he finishes in the top 10. Most of the field are still riding Gixxers. I would think that if the BMW was so easy to ride fast and race (or KTM for that matter) the grid fillers would be on them? Exactly where are these bikes dominating? Someone please find me a series where this is happening?

zvez · Jun 25, 2012

I sensed the RRW guys wanted to give more credit to the duc but ducati pretty well hamstrung them in the test. For fairness sake I wish they'd have put off the test until they could get a privately owned duc that they could have a level playing field with , ie tires ans suspension changes.

ttkarp said:
It's true it was sixth, but remember the ZX10 and RSV4 were both broken, so it could have been worse. However, it's still near the top in horsepower, top in torque, and by far the lightest. You would think someone could find a set up that works in getting it around a track competitively.

lsberrios1 · Jun 25, 2012

ttkarp said:
The bikes in WSB are nothing like ours so I don't think you can draw any conclusions based on that series. AMA is much closer to production (but still probably not a good gauge) but those guys base it as much on financial considerations from the manufacturer as they do on the bike itself. The Honda won the shootout, yet they don't even participate in the AMA series. It's a lot about money and a little about performance when they pick their rides.

but the bikes on Stk are and they seem to be doing pretty well even though BMW is on top.

rm4two · Jun 25, 2012

ttkarp said:
The bikes in WSB are nothing like ours so I don't think you can draw any conclusions based on that series. AMA is much closer to production (but still probably not a good gauge) but those guys base it as much on financial considerations from the manufacturer as they do on the bike itself. The Honda won the shootout, yet they don't even participate in the AMA series. It's a lot about money and a little about performance when they pick their rides.

True but, if you were a privateer looking to go racing in AMA in the last 10+ years and be as competitive as possible you got yourself a Gixxer. That is still the case today. Regardless of the support or contingency money if the bike was crap no one would ride it. Well if the BMW, KTM and Honda are supposed to be "...." why aren't privateers riding them? In KTMs case a can see lack of parts and local support as the reason, but BMW & Honda...... I don't think so. A BMW is only $2k more than a Gixer so I hardly think its a financial decision. No privateer is going to ride a Ducati, they are just too damn expensive. But again the grids aren't full of BMW's and Honda's which was my point.

sqd8r · Jun 25, 2012

rm4two said:
When Checa, Savadori or La Marra says the bike handles like poo then I'll start listening lol

What about Hodgson.

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