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Just a wild ass guess, but I suppose Michelin won that just by throwing a .... ton of money at Dorna.

That was before my MotoGP time, but I'd like more than a two source solution. If was only going to be two, you might as well just have one, which is likely how we ended up here. If you had four in the mix, I think you could mix it up.

Or, just change the sole source manufacturer every year or every other year.
 
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I would like to see it open to more than one supplier but allow teams to decide which tires to go with on a session by session basis. No exclusivity agreements.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
Just a wild ass guess, but I suppose Michelin won that just by throwing a .... ton of money at Dorna.

That was before my MotoGP time, but I'd like more than a two source solution. If was only going to be two, you might as well just have one, which is likely how we ended up here. If you had four in the mix, I think you could mix it up.

Or, just change the sole source manufacturer every year or every other year.
Click to expand...

The reason they went to a single tire rule was purely for the economics of Tire Manufacturer Marketing. Michelin wins every race now. So clever.
Overall the tire quality was higher with a manufacturer war as it was a competition. So when Bridgestone was outperforming Michelin, Michelin's spend was in the toilet and the risk for the investment was much worse than a 50% chance. At the end of that last season bikes with the Bridgestones were in front.
As soon as Bridgestone won the single tire contract, their tires went to .... and they made tires that were loosing 10cm chunks during the race, it was insanity.
So they switched to Michelin which benefited Honda and was a disaster for Ducati, who then took years reinventing the bike to match the tire Honda wanted and here we are. Michelin is now trying to save money on the tires and they're getting worse.
This is all because of Dorna's business model of high priced exclusive broadcasting = smaller audience = bigger risk for marketing budgets for everyone.
Dorna makes less risky money, Michelin makes money, everyone else is squeaking by or losing .... tons of money = Suzuki out, Yamaha cutting race budgets, Honda cutting race budgets etc. Ducati has made it work taking massive R&D risk and winning finally. They ....... deserve 2023 IMO, 100%. MotoGP, SBK, WSSP. 👍
Dorna sucks.
Prototype bikes need prototype tires, the end.
 
Vbreeze said:
The reason they went to a single tire rule was purely for the economics of Tire Manufacturer Marketing. Michelin wins every race now. So clever.
Overall the tire quality was higher with a manufacturer war as it was a competition. So when Bridgestone was outperforming Michelin, Michelin's spend was in the toilet and the risk for the investment was much worse than a 50% chance. At the end of that last season bikes with the Bridgestones were in front.
As soon as Bridgestone won the single tire contract, their tires went to .... and they made tires that were loosing 10cm chunks during the race, it was insanity.
So they switched to Michelin which benefited Honda and was a disaster for Ducati, who then took years reinventing the bike to match the tire Honda wanted and here we are. Michelin is now trying to save money on the tires and they're getting worse.
This is all because of Dorna's business model of high priced exclusive broadcasting = smaller audience = bigger risk for marketing budgets for everyone.
Dorna makes less risky money, Michelin makes money, everyone else is squeaking by or losing .... tons of money = Suzuki out, Yamaha cutting race budgets, Honda cutting race budgets etc. Ducati has made it work taking massive R&D risk and winning finally. They ....... deserve 2023 IMO, 100%. MotoGP, SBK, WSSP. 👍
Dorna sucks.
Prototype bikes need prototype tires, the end.
Click to expand...

Ah, that makes sense - especially regarding why the Japanese manufacturers are struggling so much now (although I read that Suzuki's departure had something to do with punitive actions take. subsequent to their version of VW’s diesel gate).

Thanks for that insight. 👊
 
Vbreeze said:
The reason they went to a single tire rule was purely for the economics of Tire Manufacturer Marketing. Michelin wins every race now. So clever.
Overall the tire quality was higher with a manufacturer war as it was a competition. So when Bridgestone was outperforming Michelin, Michelin's spend was in the toilet and the risk for the investment was much worse than a 50% chance. At the end of that last season bikes with the Bridgestones were in front.
As soon as Bridgestone won the single tire contract, their tires went to .... and they made tires that were loosing 10cm chunks during the race, it was insanity.
So they switched to Michelin which benefited Honda and was a disaster for Ducati, who then took years reinventing the bike to match the tire Honda wanted and here we are. Michelin is now trying to save money on the tires and they're getting worse.
This is all because of Dorna's business model of high priced exclusive broadcasting = smaller audience = bigger risk for marketing budgets for everyone.
Dorna makes less risky money, Michelin makes money, everyone else is squeaking by or losing .... tons of money = Suzuki out, Yamaha cutting race budgets, Honda cutting race budgets etc. Ducati has made it work taking massive R&D risk and winning finally. They ....... deserve 2023 IMO, 100%. MotoGP, SBK, WSSP. 👍
Dorna sucks.
Prototype bikes need prototype tires, the end.
Click to expand...

My understanding was that a single tire supplier was implemented for a number of reasons:
Primarily to control corner speeds
Ensure continuity of supply of test tires
End single lap qualifiers
Control costs

Ultimately we want a rider competition, then a machine competition but what we dont want is a tire manufacturer competition. Complain all you like about Michelin but it means that all the teams have to deal with how the rubber interacts with the track equally.
 
In addition riders have very little time for testing, let alone testing new rubber, if you think building a GP tire is easy then you are on drugs, heres a good article on about how demanding it was and why a single spec tire is what the teams want. MotoGP: Tire testing thankfully not what it used to be

Bridgestone made a great front but the rear was crap, Michelin are the opposite but I am sure even the Bridgestone would struggle with the demands today.
 
Not a single trackdayer in EU uses Michelin slicks - they are ....

Pirellis, Dunlop and Bridgestone are the tires to get.

What's happening in MotoGP is pure example of corruption. Same as FIFA
 
Ive used Michelins and I rate them, especially the front, tires we can buy vs tires made for GP are very different. MotoGP vs trackday has no common ground
 
Paul G said:
My understanding was that a single tire supplier was implemented for a number of reasons:
Primarily to control corner speeds
Ensure continuity of supply of test tires
End single lap qualifiers
Control costs

Ultimately we want a rider competition, then a machine competition but what we dont want is a tire manufacturer competition. Complain all you like about Michelin but it means that all the teams have to deal with how the rubber interacts with the track equally.
Click to expand...

Why not a tire competition? That makes no sense!

There's competition on every other part of the bikes apart from the ECU which should also be open to competition.

It's a prototype class and the ultimate series in motorcycle road racing, it's purpose should be the development of technology while also providing entertainment.

Specification regulations should be put in place to ensure the sport and tech has and intended framework and direction. Other than that only a cost cap implemented to allow accessibility and competition.

If any component is going to be mandatory regulation then the whole bike should be in my opinion... One make racing exists and it makes sense as an entry platform to motorsport for reasons like lower costs and equal opportunity to recognise talent.

Having said that... MotoE also doesn't make any sense.
 
Paul G said:
Ive used Michelins and I rate them, especially the front, tires we can buy vs tires made for GP are very different. MotoGP vs trackday has no common ground
Click to expand...

To be able to rate them, I guess you need to be doing at least 49s at Jerez on it.
Starbucks rating is useless.

You can buy pretty much any WSBK or EWC or IDM tire as a commoner.
So there is lots of common ground, just not with MotoGP.
 
Racing series without a control tire always result in a single tire manufacturer coming to the fore. Just look at EWC. Bridgestone is the dominant manufacturer by a long shot. And these Bridgestone’s aren’t available to other teams which just further separates the field.

Like others have said, I’m here to watch good racing where talent is the defining factor to winning races, not equipment. Even in prototype racing which isn’t an open free for all. Bikes have to adhere to all kinds of rules and why not have tires be one of them?
 
SuperDomestique said:
Racing series without a control tire always result in a single tire manufacturer coming to the fore. Just look at EWC. Bridgestone is the dominant manufacturer by a long shot. And these Bridgestone’s aren’t available to other teams which just further separates the field.

Like others have said, I’m here to watch good racing where talent is the defining factor to winning races, not equipment. Even in prototype racing which isn’t an open free for all. Bikes have to adhere to all kinds of rules and why not have tires be one of them?
Click to expand...

I'm not questioning a single tire supplier rule. I don't understand why it has to be Michelin - no one else uses them on track.
 

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