Tuneboy MAP tables

In pursuit of smoothness in my bike, I've started exploring the Tuneboy software, specifically the 'Fuel MAP Trim' tables. Going through the supplied trim tables there seems to be a lot of inconsistency between the different tunes, some have values, some only have values for only the front cylinder and nothing in the rear. Then there's the 'how the hell does this table work' aspect. There's no reference in the vertical column. I'm waiting on my tuner to send through the table he created, but knowing that he started with a pre-supplied trim table, I'm suspecting that there will be difference in the MAP tables, which leads to the odd behaviour in my bike.

Does anyone have any insight into what the vertical column represents or why there would be values for one cylinder and not the other?

Is anyone willing/able to share what their Tuneboy MAP fuel tables look like? I’m not entirely sure how much should be in the base TP tables vs the MAP tables. I won’t be making uneducated changes, but understanding what works on other people’s bikes might help in resolving my issue.

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TBH, if you dont understand how fuel tables work and their function then dont go messing with them. Lean out a cylinder and melt a piston then you really going to have fun......

the TB auto tune is not bad, but you need to have it strapped to a dyno to use it correctly. Or find a tuner, data log some runs and let them adjust the tables to suit.

All over tuning in terms of principles a d have been involved in it one way or another for about 20 years, so no issues there. The only bit that I'm querying is the use of the MAP tables themselves. There's no unit applied to the vertical axis, so could be actual pressure, percentage of pressure, or TP. Then there's the understanding of why TB seems to have very different set ups front and rear. I'm not just saying the values vary slightly, but there are some tables that are 0's and others with values in some cells but not others, essentially there seems to be no logic......

if they are 0 then there is no adjustment needed against the target AFR, where if the cell has a number + or - is the adjust value needed to get to the target. Normally with TB you would set you target AFR and if using the autotune on the dyno it either auto ramps if selected or you do it manually.
you can adjust each cell if you wish but you need to reload the trim table to ecu each time.
I used a datalogger o2 setup and coverted readisng to an excel to help calculate the required input to TB

...wait till you get onto the auto blipper maps lol

All good with the trimming aspect. Mine was tuned manually and all the AF ratios looked great, I just get differing results depending on which MAP sensor is used, but can't fault the sensors or any mechanical parts. To me it still looks like there's something electrically between the sensor and the ECU, but could be the program doing something in one cylinder and not the other.

The MAP tables don't say what the axis is either, adding to some confusion

I got the tune files today and the trim file has 3% reduced fuel from 1250 - 2400 rpm and then 5% increase in fuel from 2800 - 4500 rpm. This is exactly where I find the least smooth area in the rev range. As mentioned, I'm not sure if the MAP table supplements the base table or if it's the only table in use under certain conditions, but this seems to at least line up with the bike stalling when only running on the rear cylinder purely because of the different fueling

Disco said:

I got the tune files today and the trim file has 3% reduced fuel from 1250 - 2400 rpm and then 5% increase in fuel from 2800 - 4500 rpm. This is exactly where I find the least smooth area in the rev range. As mentioned, I'm not sure if the MAP table supplements the base table or if it's the only table in use under certain conditions, but this seems to at least line up with the bike stalling when only running on the rear cylinder purely because of the different fueling

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I should have mentioned that the trims are only on the front cylinder with no trim on the rear.

I hope you get this sorted. This has piqued my interest to see what's going on. On the plus side, I bet you have learned a lot! lol

The saga continues! We’ve basically disabled the MAP tables and I’ll focus on refining the fuel tables as it didn’t change the smoothness (it does feel odd saying that about a big twin, but it does work for power delivery). On the plus side it doesn’t pop as much on down shifts and I now know how all of the TB tables work. The cable should arrive this week and then I can pla6 more at home.

Disco said:

The saga continues! We’ve basically disabled the MAP tables and I’ll focus on refining the fuel tables as it didn’t change the smoothness (it does feel odd saying that about a big twin, but it does work for power delivery). On the plus side it doesn’t pop as much on down shifts and I now know how all of the TB tables work. The cable should arrive this week and then I can pla6 more at home.

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Disco ........ I'm playing around with this at the moment also ....... I too have a background in tuning. Mainly installing, and tuning WRX's on the road using a wideband with a Haltech engine management system laptop, home key. on the passenger seat. Also wideband tuning FCR's, PWK's ........... I don't think our MAP sensors are MAP sensors .... I think they are just on-off switches to tell the system when we are on the induction stroke. A sort off home signal for the injection system. At low RPM it would give some opportunity to at least inject fuel when the inlet valves are open. Often the injection duty cycle can happen anytime in 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation. In a 4 cylinder car the plenum chamber has a way of smoothing out the pulsing allowing a MAP sensor to work as the main monitoring meter. This was not possible on a bike as we don't have a plenum. So bikes use TPS to dispense fuel. The TPS has a shortcoming in that the resolution of small butterfly openings ie large changes in airflow occur from closed so the initial throttle is jerky cause the rheostat TPS can't meter properly as it's basically to small. On a MAP car the TPS tells the CPU you just hit the throttle and will enrich the fuel, at a decreasing amount, until the motor catches up. The Panigale is designed for the race track so we really don't need MAP tuning, just switching. Ducati may have found a way around this problem of MAP tuning on a single cylinder and applied it to the Multistrada, and the Diavel at low RPM where it would benefit most to offset the jerky throttle. That's why it maybe included in the TRIM software. One of our big problems is that we can't see the actual fuel settings on the MAP page as we only only get a plus or minus reading where the map has been modified. If it works then leave it alone at a guess. I have not looked at, or investigated what the MAP switch or meter is capable of. In the past a MAP sensor on one cylinder was a switch. I guess it would be possible to check what influence it has by playing around with the + & - settings as a total group on both cylinders to see if it has any effect. I have the data logger module on the cable so it is possible for me to record AFR's on the road and tune at home......... Wayne is a one man army so that's why we don't get the pleasure of his company. I guess he is flat out busy. His software is amazing though. So much better than a piggy back solution I think. You cant beat a Haltech though. There was no tuned software, no settings of any kind. You had to start with nothing so your first challenge was the installation, the wiring, pick up's, settings and getting it to idle ...... I taught you so much as you had to understand everything about the components of various injection systems. More fun than watching stupid TV .... lol

Hi Lisa

The MAP sensors are definitely standard sensors. In the TB software there is a throttle balance screen that shows a percentage value for the vacuum. Also, when running the bike, the MAP table shows upper and lower pressures with the trim position identified. I also ran a multimeter on the MAP output line and it's 100% 0-5v.

For now I've effectively turned off the base tune files use of the MAP table by setting the entire table to 100% TP. There's still some sense of stutter that I can't eliminate, but it's not affecting the ridability of the bike. There's only 3000kms until it's desmo service do I'll get them to check the timing as wells as the clearances before I start playing again.

Disco

Ok ...... I'm amazed that the technology has solved that problem as that is such a hostile environment for an electronic meter. On the KTM 990 LC8 the map was a switch That's about 2008 .......... In the documentation Wayne infers that the throttle balance only relates to the MTS and Diavel not the Pani and he mentions a bleed of screw for setting the balance..... But nothing would surprise me with TB PW ....... I'm using the Full Akrapovic trims Dyno Trim (5000), Eco 7500 trim, and Wet 10,000 trims. They have the 3 power modes Full race, Linear torque, and short pull already in. No missing at all. its a perfect tune really. Hard to improve on ..... Might be worth a try it might just run perfect ..... Save and file your trims and give it a go as it can't hurt just flash it back. I think exhaust is overrated in tuning. A wide band will pick up a dirty air filter with carbs but does not notice a change to the exhaust ......

The throttle balance isn't adjustable on the Pani, the ECU controls it, so no screw.

I'll look at the other files, but I've had this bike dyno tuned by 2 separate tuners and still can't get it spot on. Like you said though, there's nothing stopping me changing it back either

One problem with TuneBoy is that they disable the 02 Sensors (QS plugs into an o2 sensor point) So really without the external 02 sensor package you are basicly doing an RPM based map tune.
Generally you set your target AFR in one of the other tables and let the auto tune do its thing on both narrow band and wide band 02's.

The biggest problem I had is a couldnt get the datalogger to work with the external sensors. As I didnt have a local TB tuner, Wayne wasnt repling and the local shops with dyno werent interested, it was a frustrating process, especially trying to sort out the QS settings.

I gave up in the end.

The stock O2 sensors are narrow band so aren't ideal for tuning. They can be replaced with wide band (which I'm considering), but do the tuning without the QS fitted, then connect it later. I wouldn't be using the QS feature while tuning anyway.

Lisa said:

Disco

Ok ...... I'm amazed that the technology has solved that problem as that is such a hostile environment for an electronic meter. On the KTM 990 LC8 the map was a switch That's about 2008 .......... In the documentation Wayne infers that the throttle balance only relates to the MTS and Diavel not the Pani and he mentions a bleed of screw for setting the balance..... But nothing would surprise me with TB PW ....... I'm using the Full Akrapovic trims Dyno Trim (5000), Eco 7500 trim, and Wet 10,000 trims. They have the 3 power modes Full race, Linear torque, and short pull already in. No missing at all. its a perfect tune really. Hard to improve on ..... Might be worth a try it might just run perfect ..... Save and file your trims and give it a go as it can't hurt just flash it back. I think exhaust is overrated in tuning. A wide band will pick up a dirty air filter with carbs but does not notice a change to the exhaust ......
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Hi Lisa I've just had my first week enjoying the TuneBoy cruise and tune on my 1199s - absolutely blown away with the fact that I've now got electronic cruise control - game changer!
I live in Australia and Wayne is only a few hours drive from where I live, but I still struggle to get replies to my emails.!

I notice you mention the 3 power modes, I too have loaded 3 supplied trims and can seemingly switch between them via the open throttle/clutch pull procedure, but I can't quite work out how this is different to changing between the 3 power modes.

Do you have a clearer explanation of how you switch between trims and power modes?

Cheers from Oz!

MrPRRose said:

Hi Lisa I've just had my first week enjoying the TuneBoy cruise and tune on my 1199s - absolutely blown away with the fact that I've now got electronic cruise control - game changer!
I live in Australia and Wayne is only a few hours drive from where I live, but I still struggle to get replies to my emails.!

I notice you mention the 3 power modes, I too have loaded 3 supplied trims and can seemingly switch between them via the open throttle/clutch pull procedure, but I can't quite work out how this is different to changing between the 3 power modes.

Do you have a clearer explanation of how you switch between trims and power modes?

Cheers from Oz!

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Hi mate ......... Hold your throttle open and try hitting the menu up button. This changes the three power modes on mine. You know you have them as the RPM setting is lower than the trim maps. It's not documented but I had it written on a dyno map P/W I got with the bike ........... I made a note on FB photo that read ........ So I could remember ..... lol .... Trim modes = ....... Full throttle+Clutch .... 5k Full, 75k Eco, 10k Wet. ...... Power modes = Menu Up hold + Clutch = 5k full Ducati power, 6k linier torque 100% throttle, 7k linier torque Short Pull 75% Throttle.

Disco said:

The stock O2 sensors are narrow band so aren't ideal for tuning. They can be replaced with wide band (which I'm considering), but do the tuning without the QS fitted, then connect it later. I wouldn't be using the QS feature while tuning anyway.

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I agree the narrow bands are not much more than switches. You need a wideband to self tune ........ Wayne's Akro maps are hard to improve on because his 2018 maps must be wideband auto tuned ....... but you can play with things to make them better on the road or just more cammy sounding in shopping centres as you struggle to contain the beast as you take off ....... love it ......... Innovate make neat mounts to hold a bosch 7200 sniffer ...... easy to angle to clear bits. I use a WBo2 Tech Edge WBo2.com WIDEBAND AFR/LAMBDA (Tech Edge) .. Wayne says my Tech Edge will log ..... I have the logger built into the connecting cable .... Its going on my 1973 RD350 2T next as I tune my 28mm PWK Keihin's ..... Life should always be fun