V4S offset triples - school me

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Yeah I’m not so sure about this whole changing oil is the “poor man’s revalving”. No credible Ohlins shop will use non-Ohlins oil. If a shop offers that, walk away. Additionally, changing shims on a TTX is relatively simple and can be done without disassembling the entire shock. Again, a reputable Ohlins shop can do this and can potentially be done on bike.

The odd thing that baffles me is that Ducati test riders - literally professional riders with years of experience whose sole responsibility is to sort out these bikes - can make them work without any geometry changes or radical suspension changes even on the track. I get that dialing in a bike using basic suspension parameters (the correct springs for your weight and then tailor in comp/rebound) is necessary. But changing triples, extending swingarms, changing shim stacks, linkages, etc etc is waaaaay overkill for even for the club racer especially with a V4.

There’s a reason that it takes a team to run a bike with these big modifications. But even then, it’s to make gains in the hundredths and tenths of a sec

The limiting factor isn’t the bike, rather it’s the person sitting on it. An avid track day rider won’t truly take advantage of these radical suspension changes. They won’t fix ...... riding technique.

This change in ”feel” will be mostly a placebo effect if anything. You‘ll be complicating an already sorted platform when the thing that needs to be changed is honing your skills with more practice.

If you’re making these changes without a person like Bruce or roadracerx (which I’m surprised they offer this knowledge and experience for free because you really should be paying for it) or similar that can exploit these nuanced parts, you’re doing it wrong. But if you want to throw money at a problem and see what sticks by all means have at it.

Ohlins on these platforms comes with 5 weight. Ohlins also makes a 10 weight oil, so some tuners will switch to the 10 weight Ohlins oil. That’s not using a non-Ohlins oil.

I don’t really agree with your assessment on mods. Shim stacking is basic suspension setup, it’s not overly complicated and any Ohlins service can do it. Sure a pro rider can push the bike hard and lay down great times. The problem is most of us aren’t pro riders, so the skill gets made up for by adjusting the other weaker links on the bike itself. I’m sure Rossi can adjust for a bad suspension a hell of a lot better than I can. Some of these little things eventually add up and result in a bike that’s easier to ride and turn faster times on.

Totally agree that the rider is the weakest link more often than not.
 
Ohlins on these platforms comes with 5 weight. Ohlins also makes a 10 weight oil, so some tuners will switch to the 10 weight Ohlins oil. That’s not using a non-Ohlins oil.

I don’t really agree with your assessment on mods. Shim stacking is basic suspension setup, it’s not overly complicated and any Ohlins service can do it. Sure a pro rider can push the bike hard and lay down great times. The problem is most of us aren’t pro riders, so the skill gets made up for by adjusting the other weaker links on the bike itself. I’m sure Rossi can adjust for a bad suspension a hell of a lot better than I can. Some of these little things eventually add up and result in a bike that’s easier to ride and turn faster times on.

Totally agree that the rider is the weakest link more often than not.
Stock shim stacks are good for 90% of riders especially on Ohlins stuff. 2 clicks on the adjusters make significant differences. If I talked to my suspension tuner (Kyle Racing) and was like “I’m thinking of changing the shims because I’m blowing through the stroke on brakes” they’d suggest changing a bunch of other things before touching the shims.

And Ohlins shops shouldn’t be messing with oil viscosity. It throws the whole shock off when you do that. I’d be wary of a shop that wanted to substitute out the 1309 oil. Especially if they go to that first instead of changing shims.

A good suspension tuner recommends things you NEED not what you WANT. I asked them if they could fit an o ring to the fork stanchion to keep track of travel. They said in my application it wasn’t necessary (more street riding than track) and to use a zip tie instead when you’re at the track and cut it off afterwards. It’ll just accumulate dirt and debris and leads to more contamination of the seals and oil. They also listened to my needs and sure they could’ve sold me on FGRTs but steered me towards cartridges instead because it was unnecessary.

Making radical suspension changes without a proper suspension tuner is just going to cost you money and time and frustration. It’d be like going to the doctor for a cold and asking for antibiotics.
 
I'm quite sure rider preference goes into it too. The particular setup Ducati's test riders prefer may suit them very well but may be way off for someone who isn't a 5'-6" 165lb Italian professional motorcycle test rider.
 
Stock shim stacks are good for 90% of riders especially on Ohlins stuff. 2 clicks on the adjusters make significant differences. If I talked to my suspension tuner (Kyle Racing) and was like “I’m thinking of changing the shims because I’m blowing through the stroke on brakes” they’d suggest changing a bunch of other things before touching the shims..
Yeah maybe 90 percent of street squids. Anyone running a half decent intermediate group pace will out perform the stock S Ohlins suspension, to include the fast shimming stacks in them. The electronic adjusters also suck. 2 clicks on them does almost nothing. This is exactly why so many here strongly advocate to buy base models instead of the “upgraded” models. The electronic suspension is sub par. I could still run faster without the shims and springs for that matter but it wouldn’t be as much a stable ride as it is now.


Shims don’t do anything for bottoming, I’m not following there…that’s more of a spring rate/oil level/compression damping thing
 
This is exactly why so many here strongly advocate to buy base models instead of the “upgraded” models


Shims don’t do anything for bottoming, I’m not following there…that’s more of a spring rate/oil level/compression damping thing
This I agree with.

@TomFoolery What exactly is the bike doing? You mention "headshake while leaned over" and I assume you want improved stability on "braking/decel". What is this headshake and where/when does it manifest (ie tip-in, mid-corner, or exit)?

I think you're onto something in your post with the EVO 2 software. Check out 44T review of the 2020 V4S. They talk a lot about some of the problems it seems you're running into. Less rear pump (9m40s) and improved the brake support/turn-in (12m45s).

 
valia's not 165 lbs...

to pick up brad's point... seems like apart from the QS all the bikes that have issues are not exactly stock... looks like tom's bike has wings? not sure if that has anything at all do w anything.
 
You know I totally forgot also that the 2018 has the stiffer frame as well. Could be part of the upset chassis story as well. There is a reason they cut those holes out in later years frames to let it flex more.
 
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I wonder how all this effects this SL, with its carbon fiber frame. I'd love to get one but I'm sure its unobtanium.

Meanwhile, I can get CF nonsense parts like fairings and other normally plastic bits.

A CF frame on the aftermarket would be an innovation for sure and a true solution for the heat problem. Go for a ride and put a hand on the subframe, then the frame. I'd bet dollars to pesos that the frame will be much hotter.
 
I wonder how all this effects this SL, with its carbon fiber frame. I'd love to get one but I'm sure its unobtanium.

Meanwhile, I can get CF nonsense parts like fairings and other normally plastic bits.

A CF frame on the aftermarket would be an innovation for sure and a true solution for the heat problem. Go for a ride and put a hand on the subframe, then the frame. I'd bet dollars to pesos that the frame will be much hotter.

The CF SL swingarm is £25k
Sure the frame is multiples of that Apparently has flex designed into it
 
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I wonder how all this effects this SL, with its carbon fiber frame. I'd love to get one but I'm sure its unobtanium.

Meanwhile, I can get CF nonsense parts like fairings and other normally plastic bits.

A CF frame on the aftermarket would be an innovation for sure and a true solution for the heat problem. Go for a ride and put a hand on the subframe, then the frame. I'd bet dollars to pesos that the frame will be much hotter.
 
You know I totally forgot also that the 2018 has the stiffer frame as well. Could be part of the upset chassis story as well. There is a reason they cut those holes out in later years frames to let it flex more.
You know what to do @TomFoolery… time to break out the dremel on that frame #artsandcrafts
 
Looks like the one I just got from HSBK…I’d be interested in comparing the measurements of the one I ordered to yours, yours looks a bit shorter on the back side of the triangle….but that could just be camera angles.


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So, I just noticed in the description of this link it says "it makes the rising rate more linear" - does that mean it's still a progressive link but just better than the stock link??? or is it a true linear link?????
 
So, I just noticed in the description of this link it says "it makes the rising rate more linear" - does that mean it's still a progressive link but just better than the stock link??? or is it a true linear link?????

Hence, me wanting to compare the measurements of the one I have at home to the one Bruce Wayne fabricated.

Unfortunately I had to run and catch a flight yesterday and didn’t have time to measure mine before I left…but I’ll do so in a couple of days when so get home.

Though I can’t imagine that FM would R&D the part and make enough to sell them that they would do so without building enough into it to solve the intended problem.
 
You can buy the V4R frame brand new for $1150.00. This is a “non title” (no serial number) frame, track only.
 
I got my carbon frames for the 1299 from Tamburini for 6k new with cups. They retail from Ducati at I think 12-14k. I’m sure a V4 SL frame will pop up eventually at a steep discount
 

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