V4S vs. Speciale

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jpanigale said:
Financing has it's advantages when it comes to Insurance issues...
Since bank owns the bike Insurance has to indemnify them not owner...
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So what you're saying is that it's an advantage that the bank forces you have to pay for all of that extra insurance (GAP insurance, third party liability, etc.) so that the bank does not lose on their loan?

All of this is well documented. Don't take my word for it. Look it up.

For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with financing a vehicle if that's what you want to do with your personal finances. But don't ever say it's an advantage when your hand is forced by the bank that owns the asset for you to spend more money than you need to. Trust me, when those banks gamble trillions of dollars on stupid .... like mortgage backed securities, it's because they don't lose when it comes to lending money to the wee folk like us. When you finance a vehicle you are forced to carry a certain amount of insurance above and beyond normal requirements and in many cases, banks take out highly overpriced policies on the assets and stick the borrower with the bill (of course, with heavy mark up and of course with interest). Again, don't take my word for it. Look it up.
 
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Sherpa23 said:
So what you're saying is that it's an advantage that the bank forces you have to pay for all of that extra insurance (GAP insurance, third party liability, etc.) so that the bank does not lose on their loan?

All of this is well documented. Don't take my word for it. Look it up.

For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with financing a vehicle if that's what you want to do with your personal finances. But don't ever say it's an advantage when your hand is forced by the bank that owns the asset for you to spend more money than you need to. Trust me, when those banks gamble trillions of dollars on stupid .... like mortgage backed securities, it's because they don't lose when it comes to lending money to the wee folk like us. When you finance a vehicle you are forced to carry a certain amount of insurance above and beyond normal requirements and in many cases, banks take out highly overpriced policies on the assets and stick the lender with the bill (with mark up and with interest). Again, don't take my word for it. Look it up.
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banksters: profits are privatized, losses are socialized. (or how about swaps on toxic MBS which you know w/ 100% certainty will blow up; like taking out fire insurance on shacks whose value you list as middle class homes and then setting fire to them all.)

you're already a bagholder = taxpayer, so don't be a debt-slave on top of that.

look up what fascism really is; hint: it's crony-capitalism, or the exact opposite of true free market capitalism, with the gov = corp/bank boot firmly pressing up against your temple, pinning your head against the pavement.


edit:

“How do you make poor people feel wealthy when wages are stagnant? You give them cheap loans”.

Michael Lewis, "The Big Short"
 
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Sherpa23 said:
So what you're saying is that it's an advantage that the bank forces you have to pay for all of that extra insurance (GAP insurance, third party liability, etc.) so that the bank does not lose on their loan?

All of this is well documented. Don't take my word for it. Look it up.

For what it's worth, there's nothing wrong with financing a vehicle if that's what you want to do with your personal finances. But don't ever say it's an advantage when your hand is forced by the bank that owns the asset for you to spend more money than you need to. Trust me, when those banks gamble trillions of dollars on stupid .... like mortgage backed securities, it's because they don't lose when it comes to lending money to the wee folk like us. When you finance a vehicle you are forced to carry a certain amount of insurance above and beyond normal requirements and in many cases, banks take out highly overpriced policies on the assets and stick the lender with the bill (with mark up and with interest). Again, don't take my word for it. Look it up.
Click to expand...

I've financed both my 1199 and now my dragster. I've never been forced to carry gap insurance or any other insurance other than what I have always carried regardless if my vehicle was paid off or financed. Yes, there are liability limits that are required for leased vehicles and financed vehicles but again, most would have higher full coverage limits anyway regardless if it's a cash purchase or financed. For reference, I'm with AAA with a $250 deductible and 100k/300k/100k limits and that is all I have. The difference between my current coverage versus a 50k/100k/50k $500 deductible coverage was only $18 month more. I'd rather pay that $18 more for peace of mind, in case .... happens. Loans are so cheap right now that as long as you have great credit, it's like financing practically interest free. I'd rather pay a few hundred dollars more over the course of my loan than drop a large sum of cash all at once. I could do a lot more with that large sum of cash than just buying a toy. If rates were high, then I'd buy it outright but for now, that's not the case.
 
If you guys aren't paying any more than you would be for a cash deal then great for you. That's really good. I've just personally seen some friends deal with really unscrupulous stuff like additional insurance, extra interest, dubious charges added to pay off amounts and other things - and usually they don't ask me to look at things until it's way too late and I can't really do much.

Personally speaking, I can't do the financing. I know most people would prefer to finance than deal with a large cash outlay but many aspects of financing vehicles don't sit well with me. It's my own choice and maybe I am very old school in that respect but that's me.
 
Sherpa23 said:
If you guys aren't paying any more than you would be for a cash deal then great for you. That's really good. I've just personally seen some friends deal with really unscrupulous stuff like additional insurance, extra interest, dubious charges added to pay off amounts and other things - and usually they don't ask me to look at things until it's way too late and I can't really do much.

Personally speaking, I can't do the financing. I know most people would prefer to finance than deal with a large cash outlay but many aspects of financing vehicles don't sit well with me. It's my own choice and maybe I am very old school in that respect but that's me.
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You and I both. Everyone has a different understanding and perception of affordability. For me on a depreciating asset that I cannot generate revenue from whatsoever, If I can't lease it and write it off, I'm paying cash. If I can't so that, my own perception is that I cannot afford it. Again, everyone is different. And every financing contract has different terms and rates. If you have a finance deal that works for you and makes sense, all the power to you. I just never had one where I feel it is worth the additional interest and associated costs.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
 
double0 said:
I've financed both my 1199 and now my dragster. I've never been forced to carry gap insurance or any other insurance other than what I have always carried regardless if my vehicle was paid off or financed. Yes, there are liability limits that are required for leased vehicles and financed vehicles but again, most would have higher full coverage limits anyway regardless if it's a cash purchase or financed. For reference, I'm with AAA with a $250 deductible and 100k/300k/100k limits and that is all I have. The difference between my current coverage versus a 50k/100k/50k $500 deductible coverage was only $18 month more. I'd rather pay that $18 more for peace of mind, in case .... happens. Loans are so cheap right now that as long as you have great credit, it's like financing practically interest free. I'd rather pay a few hundred dollars more over the course of my loan than drop a large sum of cash all at once. I could do a lot more with that large sum of cash than just buying a toy. If rates were high, then I'd buy it outright but for now, that's not the case.
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Exactly !!. Who would buy a vehicle cash and still not have full coverage on it? Even if its paid off you have to "protect" your money so to speak. My bike has been paid of and I kept the exact same coverage with $1000 comp and collision and up to $6000 in accessory coverage.

My interest is less than 2%, that $931 over 5 yrs on my 1199 and I paid it off early so even less interest than that. I can live with that while "you" pay full cash and losing value my cash is tied in investments and making me MORE money :) ...WAY more than $931 over 5 yrs hahaha.

End of the day to each his own but as my man suggests, loans are so cheap it only makes sense. So stop frowning upon ppl who finance !!!

Now, if you have bad credit or no credit I suggest a nice amount down payment or buy it in Yo mama's name lol . Either way, you have to pay your dues and build your credit until its smooth sailing ;-)

#ibuywhatiwant
 
DUCENZO said:
Exactly !!. Who would buy a vehicle cash and still not have full coverage on it? Even if its paid off you have to "protect" your money so to speak. My bike has been paid of and I kept the exact same coverage with $1000 comp and collision and up to $6000 in accessory coverage.

My interest is less than 2%, that $931 over 5 yrs on my 1199 and I paid it off early so even less interest than that. I can live with that while "you" pay full cash and losing value my cash is tied in investments and making me MORE money :) ...WAY more than $931 over 5 yrs hahaha.

End of the day to each his own but as my man suggests, loans are so cheap it only makes sense. So stop frowning upon ppl who finance !!!

Now, if you have bad credit or no credit I suggest a nice amount down payment or buy it in Yo mama's name lol . Either way, you have to pay your dues and build your credit until its smooth sailing ;-)

#ibuywhatiwant
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Hey, feel free to jump on the bandwagon. Lots of people love to criticize me because I pay cash for things like this. Clearly, I am a loser.

I had a friend explain to me that I needed to learn to use financing like him in order to have some neat stuff. I said I'll wait until I can pay cash because, like an idiot, I grew up thinking that if I needed to finance something in order to buy it, that means that I can't afford it.

I watched him build a nice car collection and lots of cool stuff. It was neat. But then one day one small thing went wrong and he missed a payment here and a payment there and next thing you know he had to sell a lot of that stuff. But the problem was that it wasn't worth what he paid for it. And since he never put much money down on anything, he was technically underwater on everything he had. I took some of my cash and bought a couple of his Ferraris that he hardly used because he was afraid of putting miles on them (because he was worried about resale value) and tried to buy even more of his things to help him out but I couldn't because he cross-collateralized much of this stuff and the bank wouldn't release the liens, etc. etc.

It turns out that for all of the cool things that he had, he didn't own any of it - like ANY of it. It was almost like his life consisted of putting on a show of what the bank owned.

Maybe one day I'll tell the story of the time I bought two Ducati 916SPS's (one with 7 miles on it) from a guy (well I paid his bank) who defaulted on the loan for the bikes 19 years ago and hid them in a storage unit for that entire time to avoid repossession.

Anyways, I digress. I guess at the end of the day I don't care that I'm stupid and make poor life choices by paying cash for all of the depreciating assets in my life (well, the appreciating ones, too, I guess). At the end of the day, we all make our own choices and what's right for one person is different for the next guy but people can feel free to #buywhattheywant. I'll just stick to owning what I have. It's not exciting but it works for me.

By the way, I hope that everyone "buys what they want." I've never understood the point of buying what you don't want or buying what someone else wants (except at Christmas, of course).
 
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I'm not even gonna read all that , The fact that you have another response shows that you’re missing the point.

Like I’ve said to each his own
 
Sherpa and Nitrouz,

It's far from a person ..., at least from my point of view. I can't speak for other members. Hell, I wish I made the kinda money you two as well as some other fortunate members on here to be able to cash out a bike or car and not think twice about it. For me, if I paid cash for a bike (which I technically could) it would be a HUGE hit to my bank account. YUGGGGEEEEE! I don't have the patience to save up forever just to comfortably be able to dish out $20k+ on a toy in cash or anything else for that matter. I'm extremely responsible with my credit and such so for me, financing things makes the most sense and is the easiest and most justifiable way to make my purchases, be it financing bikes or leasing vehicles. I only lease cars. I get bored easily.
 
double0 said:
Sherpa and Nitrouz,

It's far from a person ..., at least from my point of view. I can't speak for other members. Hell, I wish I made the kinda money you two as well as some other fortunate members on here to be able to cash out a bike or car and not think twice about it. For me, if I paid cash for a bike (which I technically could) it would be a HUGE hit to my bank account. YUGGGGEEEEE! I don't have the patience to save up forever just to comfortably be able to dish out $20k+ on a toy in cash or anything else for that matter. I'm extremely responsible with my credit and such so for me, financing things makes the most sense and is the easiest and most justifiable way to make my purchases, be it financing bikes or leasing vehicles. I only lease cars. I get bored easily.
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with using credit responsibly. Ideally, it's something that everyone should do. You use credit the right way and, as I said before, that's really good. And it's especially good today because lots of people don't know how to do that.

My point was just that there is another side of the coin and when you've seen some ugly cases like I have, it makes a serious impression and causes someone like me to stay away from credit for things like bikes and cars. As I said, if I can't find a way to do it without financing then I go without until I can.

By the way, this is one of those things where there's no right answer. It's all personal preference and opinion and I, for one, like hearing other people's thoughts on it.
 
Sherpa23 said:
Hey, feel free to jump on the bandwagon. Lots of people love to criticize me because I pay cash for things like this. Clearly, I am a loser.

I had a friend explain to me that I needed to learn to use financing like him in order to have some neat stuff. I said I'll wait until I can pay cash because, like an idiot, I grew up thinking that if I needed to finance something in order to buy it, that means that I can't afford it.

I watched him build a nice car collection and lots of cool stuff. It was neat. But then one day one small thing went wrong and he missed a payment here and a payment there and next thing you know he had to sell a lot of that stuff. But the problem was that it wasn't worth what he paid for it. And since he never put much money down on anything, he was technically underwater on everything he had. I took some of my cash and bought a couple of his Ferraris that he hardly used because he was afraid of putting miles on them (because he was worried about resale value) and tried to buy even more of his things to help him out but I couldn't because he cross-collateralized much of this stuff and the bank wouldn't release the liens, etc. etc.

It turns out that for all of the cool things that he had, he didn't own any of it - like ANY of it. It was almost like his life consisted of putting on a show of what the bank owned.

Maybe one day I'll tell the story of the time I bought two Ducati 916SPS's (one with 7 miles on it) from a guy (well I paid his bank) who defaulted on the loan for the bikes 19 years ago and hid them in a storage unit for that entire time to avoid repossession.

Anyways, I digress. I guess at the end of the day I don't care that I'm stupid and make poor life choices by paying cash for all of the depreciating assets in my life (well, the appreciating ones, too, I guess). At the end of the day, we all make our own choices and what's right for one person is different for the next guy but people can feel free to #buywhattheywant. I'll just stick to owning what I have. It's not exciting but it works for me.

By the way, I hope that everyone "buys what they want." I've never understood the point of buying what you don't want or buying what someone else wants (except at Christmas, of course).
Click to expand...

First of all I haven’t mentioned anything about buying a used bike and it sounds like you and some of your friends have made irresponsible choices. You should never be under water on everything you own. Finance what you need to, buy what you can out right and live within your means.

How do you buy a bike from someone who apparently fraud the bank… You bought it without a title?

And since you want to throw numbers around I’m doing a cash out refinance on one of my properties right now, I’m going to pull $69,000. You think I’m going to buy a bike cash with that or pay off my Alpina? Half of that is going to be down payment on another property and the other half I have some options for new Endeavors.

I have personal friends and business partners were millionaires and they still finance most things, for the same reasons I explained I do.

Reason why I’m explaining all this is because you and a few other guys have a certain tone about you.... As if you’re talking down to people who choose to or have to finance. I appreciate your explanation and your paranoia but humble yourself .
 
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double0 said:
Sherpa and Nitrouz,

It's far from a person ..., at least from my point of view. I can't speak for other members. Hell, I wish I made the kinda money you two as well as some other fortunate members on here to be able to cash out a bike or car and not think twice about it. For me, if I paid cash for a bike (which I technically could) it would be a HUGE hit to my bank account. YUGGGGEEEEE! I don't have the patience to save up forever just to comfortably be able to dish out $20k+ on a toy in cash or anything else for that matter. I'm extremely responsible with my credit and such so for me, financing things makes the most sense and is the easiest and most justifiable way to make my purchases, be it financing bikes or leasing vehicles. I only lease cars. I get bored easily.
Click to expand...
I completely agree with you. As I said, every person is different, every situation is different, and every financing contract is different with regards to rates and terms. If it makes sense for you, fantastic! It just doesn't for me, and there's nothing wrong with either choice. Do what you love and what you want, as long as it makes sense for you. I fully respect that. I'm not trying to preach at all but just sharing what my personal thought process and experience is. That's all. Nothing more nothing less. We are all here to gain some different perspective from different people, and there's no right or wrong. We only live once, but life (ideally) lasts longer than the life of a bike.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
 
DUCENZO said:
First of all I haven't mentioned anything about buying a used bike and it sounds like you and some of your friends have made irresponsible choices. You should never be under water on everything you own. Finance what you need to, buy what you can out right and live within your means.

How do you buy a bike from someone who apparently fraud the bank"¦ You bought it without a title?

And since you want to throw numbers around I'm doing a cash out refinance on one of my properties right now, I'm going to pull $69,000. You think I'm going to buy a bike cash with that or pay off my Alpina? Half of that is going to be down payment on another property and the other half I have some options for new Endeavors.

I have personal friends and business partners were millionaires and they still finance most things, for the same reasons I explained I do.

Reason why I'm explaining all this is because you and a few other guys have a certain tone about you.... As if you're talking down to people who choose to or have to finance. I appreciate your explanation and your paranoia but humble yourself .
Click to expand...

Jeez. Why are you so defensive? You keep talking about tones people use like you're used to being belittled. Haven't you had a single conversation with someone who has a different opinion than what you have without feeling belittled? I understand you're having some comprehension difficulties here but no one is using any offensive tones with you.

Now, about those comprehension difficulties:

First, I don't think I've thrown out a single number and don't plan on it. Please enjoy your $69,000 from your loan in good health however you choose to. Good for you.

Second, I didn't buy the bikes from the guy. I bought them from the bank. Remember, the bank owns the assets in a loan and not the person. Technically, I bought the collateralized assets out from the loan. I gave the bank funds and they handed me two titles and at the same time, I had a friend pick up the bikes from where they were being kept.

Lastly, please let me know what "irresponsible" choices that I've made. I do understand that not everyone is great at reading but I'd like for you to point that out to me. And just so that you understand a small detail about money, it's impossible to be underwater on something if you pay cash for it. You owe $0 and real property can't really be worth less than $0. So also please tell me what I'm under water on.
 
Geez, I thought this was V4S vs Speciale thread!!!!
For a moment I thought King Richard infiltrated the thread:eek:

Start new thread Cash vs Financing or New vs Used....

Popcorn popping:D
 
people actually believe they own their "castles" and the bikes in their garage, when in fact in most cases the bank owns it all and they're paying on a 30yr mortgage which after 30yrs literally nets the bank a free home in interest payments equivalent.


and what's really both amusing and troubling is that these home "owners" are stuck with the property taxes for homes the bank in reality owns! but it's like they never see it in those terms.

it's a giant con game wrapped up in a ponzi stock "market" with all kinds of tax schemes perpetrated on you the debt-slave, while you proudly exclaim, "i pay my taxes". LOL

ever hear of Stockholm Syndrome?

edit: think about why home prices are so high, esp in terms of stagnating wages. (see above quote in my previous post -- all part of the turning up of debt-slave screws, since 1913.)
 
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VAST said:
people actually believe they own their homes and the bikes in their garage, when in fact in most cases the bank owns it all and they're paying on a 30yr mortgage which after 30yrs literally nets the bank a free home in interest payments equivalent.


and what's really both amusing and troubling is that these home "owners" are stuck with the property taxes for homes the bank in reality owns! but it's like they never see it in those terms.

it's a giant con game wrapped up in a ponzi stock "market" with all kinds of tax schemes perpetrated on you the debt-slave, while you proudly exclaim, "i pay my taxes". LOL

ever hear of Stockholm Syndrome?
Click to expand...

Yes, I have Stockholm Syndrome..Put I have been taking my medication so now it's not as bad...I can now walk and talk upright!!:eek::rolleyes:
 
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jpanigale said:
Yes, I have Stockholm Syndrome..Put I have been taking my medication so now it's not as bad now...I can now walk and talk upright!!:eek::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

but can you roll your eyes as you repeat very fast over and over, "death and taxes"? if not, maybe switch your meds out for a better diet? :p
 

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