Which exhaust?

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Another thing to think about with the Termis is that it's just a re-flash for the ECU. I like the thought of that. So if they learn lessons with the fueling on the track it can be passed on to us, theoretically. "Hey, we just got a new map from Ducati Corse. Bring your bike in when you get a chance and we'll load it up."
 
Law enforcement in my neck of the woods has gone quite anal about aftermarket exhausts, to the point where one has to avoid certain areas.

I'm gonna stick with the stock system for at least the first year and peace of mind has a lot to do with it.

That doesn't mean I won't spend ridicoulous amounts of money on bling, it'll just go elsewhere on the bike :)
 
And they had to add 6kg to Checa's 1198 for WSBK. I'm sure Ducati worked with Termignoni when designing the exhaust. Why spend the extra time and money to shave too much weight when you're just going to have to add more?

The suspected heavy weight of the slip-ons is not unexpected, considering that they also include 18 or so inches of SS link pipe inside the cans. As for the WSBK weight, Checa's bike has to meet the minimum weight of 174 kg with full fluids and an empty tank. The i-4's have a minimum weight target of just 165kg.

http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco/6510004_Anglais.pdf

As for the question, I'll go with Termi till I see what Akrapovic puts out with Ti headers. As mentioned on this and other threads Ti is lighter, stronger, more corrosion-resistant and has less thermal conductivity than SS. So Ti headers can have thinner walls than SS and still retain similar heat characteristics though the Ti will cool faster.

Plus, it just looks way cooler than "browning" SS headers! :)
 
Thanks AntiHero and bwaide. This puts it into perspective for me. I remember putting a full Ti Arata system on my ZX-12r and RWHP went from 165 to 186 with a custom Map, PC III USB, and a BMC race filter:D. I waited to see which pipe gave the most bang for the buck. Eventhough Muzzy was the culturally acceptable pipe for Kawi, for real power gains it came down to the Akro and the Arata. I went with the Arata b/c it was cheaper than the Akro and had higher power gains. But, I knew that I offended true ZX-12r/ Kawi cult followers b/c I didn't go with the Muzzy. The Muzzy power gains were maybe 8-10 HP with less weight savings. With the Arata, there was a net removal of weight~33 lbs (the aluminum cast header and the gigantic stock endpipe weighed ~40lbs:eek:, the Arata full Ti system weighed 7 lbs:cool:. Total cost: $1,089 for the pipes, $325 for the PC III USB, $50 BMC race, $250 for the custom map, $175 for the install. Total: $1889 (with tax included). Well worth it. I do remember that the motor harmonics vibrated like hell through the grips:( (solved with a set of Harris gel grips and Throttlemeisters:D).

MOTODOC
Proud to be a test pilot for Ducati with the Panigale S + ABS

Good thread. I had put a Termi system on my 1098 and was generally pleased with it. It's also a plus that the integration with Ducati on software/hardware is well established with this brand.

I have ordered one for the 1199, but to be honest, I'm thinking of getting a Austin Racing system, or the tried and true Akra, when they are available (the Akrapovic full systems I put on my race bikes have been top-tier:D).

It will be fun to watch which offerings offer the best fueling, weight, and design attributes. Leaning to Austin Racing/Akrapoic, followed by Termi.

Dyno charts will be the ultimate judge - also looking to replace some of that lost mid-range versus 1198. Oh yeah... can't forget the sound characteristics too!
 
Not sure if I am going to touch the bike with anything aftermarket. I have friends with Duc's (996S,999S and 1098S) and they said that the Gremlins unleashed:eek: when they went aftermarket exhaust were not only very costly, but the bikes never ran right again until they put the OEM back on and took the PC and aftermarket exhaust off. I know they didn't use Termi's. Some of the exhaust they used were: Akro, MIVV, and Arrow. They couldn't find the best system that allowed the bike to work:confused:.

MOTODOC
 
Termi does a lot of R & D with Ducati so I can't imagine other manufacturers would have much of a performance advantage. Unless you are ont he track you probably wouldn't see any advantage at all.
 
Some have said that after you put on a termis (slip on or full system) you have to 'tune' the exhaust to the bike ? What is that all about!!

As far as I know if you put on the full system you should have a power commander and remap the engine which I take it adjust how much fuel is used.

For the tricolore it's just a termi slip on so I don't needed to do anything when I pick up the bike right?
 
map already installed or do i have to ask for it. (should be already on there i would suspect).

Tric comes with the Termi slip ons, but they won't be installed, just bundled in the box, since they are for "race use" only. Bike will have standard fuel map and standard exhausts fitted from factory.

Ask your dealer to fit them and map up, either for delivery or at 600 service.
 
Tric comes with the Termi slip ons, but they won't be installed, just bundled in the box, since they are for "race use" only. Bike will have standard fuel map and standard exhausts fitted from factory.

Ask your dealer to fit them and map up, either for delivery or at 600 service.

What are others doing? Getting dealer to install free of charge? Or can I install it myself. I installed the arkropovic slip-on on my old r1 before. That was no issue. But even if I do installed myself I still have to remap it? I can't do that myself can I?
 
I'd imagine that the majority of members here wanting the Termis have never held an Akra system next to Termis for comparison... There is a SIGNIFICANT difference in workmanship and build quality. There is a discernible difference in sound between the two manufacturer's also. And the prices are similar...

To each their own.
 
I'm really surprised so many people change the exhaust out the box before even riding their new bike. My preference is to get to know a bike first and ride it at least for a year before I even consider a new pipe. That way I have a good bench mark of how a bike is with the OEM pipe with all its characteristics. I am obviously the minority here though so carry on.
 
I will do like you topendz, but just because I can't afford both the bike and the full like at the same time. ;-)
 
I'd imagine that the majority of members here wanting the Termis have never held an Akra system next to Termis for comparison... There is a SIGNIFICANT difference in workmanship and build quality. There is a discernible difference in sound between the two manufacturer's also. And the prices are similar...

To each their own.

Check out my Avatar PIC - you may note the Full Ti Akrapovics. I for one agree that the Akrapovics for the 1198 are of better build and sound quality. However, that being said, I still had to buy a Ducati Performance ECU and Power Commander to fine tune the fueling with the Akrapovics. Even though I installed a PC, in reality, the fueling was close enough with the Race DP ECU alone that it really wasn't required but did allow me to fine tune to my liking.

As it usually takes Akrapovic a few months to start production, I'm going with the Termis to start, till I see what they produce. By getting the full Termi system I'll also have the Full system "Key Up Map" which should be in the right ball park for the Akrapovics as well. If I like the offering from Akrapovic, which I'm sure I will, I'll change them over the winter and flog my full Termi system on ebay.

If I do decide to go this route I'll also do a few dyno runs to check the fueling both with the Termi and Akrapovic systems. Hopefully the fueling is within tolerance or we'll have the ability (Hack maybe) to fine tune the Ducati map on the ECU. Not that I've had any issues with mine, I really don't want to go with a "piggy back" unit like the PC again. I guess it's the engineer in me always wanting an integrated solution working with the baseline.

Before all the post about "how you always have to fine tune the fueling with an aftermarket system", consider this: Termignoni send the same map for every full system. They are playing the averages, considering that every injector, every spark coil, every spark plug, every valve EVERY component on the bike has operational tolerances which will be some target number with an acceptable + and - deviation. Now granted, with modern bikes and especially the Panigale or BMW, these tolerances are going to be very tight but they will be there all the same. As well as manufactured deviation, they also have to consider environmental deviations such as tempreture, humidity, altitude, fuel, etc.. So Ducati and Termignoni are playing the game of averages by providing the best mapping based on a standard median of both manufacturing and environmental deviations. Considering this, some bike's fueling will be better than others though all should be within Ducati's operating tolerances. We'll call that the "good enough" factor as perfection is unobtainable. Though there will always be those that desire near perfection and those bikes that are the outer edges of the normal distribution that will want to be fine tuned, though that should be the exception and not the norm.

With that being said, historically Akrapovic and Termignoni systems have very similar flow characteristics, so in theory, most bikes with a full Akrapovic system with the Termi Key Up Map should still fall within Ducati's operating tolerances. For those that do not, or those that require the thought of perfection, lets hope that someone hacks the Ducati ECU or we'll be looking to the aftermarket.. Time will tell.
 
Akrapovic all the way of course! And it's not street legal for Termis here in Singapore. Had Akrapovic installed on my gsxr 1000 '09 and loving the power gain and the way it sounds. Superb. Hurry up Akra!!!
 
I'm really surprised so many people change the exhaust out the box before even riding their new bike. My preference is to get to know a bike first and ride it at least for a year before I even consider a new pipe. That way I have a good bench mark of how a bike is with the OEM pipe with all its characteristics. I am obviously the minority here though so carry on.

+1
 
Tric comes with the Termi slip ons, but they won't be installed, just bundled in the box, since they are for "race use" only. Bike will have standard fuel map and standard exhausts fitted from factory.

Ask your dealer to fit them and map up, either for delivery or at 600 service.

Maybe in Europe. :eek:
 
I found on my Streetfighter that the Akrapovic pipes worked a treat with Tuneboy ECU custom tune. Two of my mates also have Sterrtighters;

One has akrapovic with PC - there is hesitation in power delivery up to 4k rpm.
The other guy has termis - larger amount of hesitation with the replacement ECU.

I'm not saying that termis or akrapovic pipes are better than the other. The ECU tune is what is most important. I am confident to advise that my Streetfighter literally rides around my two mates on the race track and I'm more than 15kg heavier.

BTW the replacement ECU that comes with the termis is no different than the standard with the exception of a reflash. Consider a POS till its flashed with a proper map that suits the engine and pipe.
 
One thing for sure if you are only looking for noise then listen to a standard system first as they are pretty loud anyway:)
 

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