1199R Twin Swan song?

I was just reminicing how close I came purchasing a used 1098R, because it was basically a 1198. Our 1199R on the other hand, is basically a 1199 with 500 more RPMs. Have they pushed this design to its limit? And expecially with Audi/VW's deep pockets, will they jump back into the 4 cylinder foray in a few more years (Desmosedici)? Food for thought...

If I wanted a four, i wouldnt buy a Duc. It would probably be a jap bike b/c the BMW is just too much of an eyesore and the Aprillia has no dealer network in ABQ, Sure a Desmo would be a cool piece of exotica to have in the living room

I brought this exact topic up in the 1199R thread and it either went unnoticed or members thought I was full of shit because it got no traction or response lol. Regardless, I do think the development of the superbike twin has reached or is damn close to reaching it's limits. You can only spin a twin so fast before reliability becomes a problem. As I said in the other thread, I would not be surprised if Ducati went to a V4 Desmosedici-ish design for it's superbike line. I don't see them moving completely away from twins for the other lines, but liter bikes...... the end could be near.

rm4two said:

I brought this exact topic up in the 1199R thread and it either went unnoticed or members thought I was full of shit because it got no traction or response lol. Regardless, I do think the development of the superbike twin has reached or is damn close to reaching it's limits. You can only spin a twin so fast before reliability becomes a problem. As I said in the other thread, I would not be surprised if Ducati went to a V4 Desmosedici-ish design for it's superbike line. I don't see them moving completely away from twins for the other lines, but liter bikes...... the end could be near.

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Awwhh, we read it, just tried to ignore it..... say it ain't so!!

Witness the Panigale, a 1198cc twin that revs and behaves pretty much like a v4 anyhow. It offers more than ample performance for the hands of mortals and we have yet to see how Carlos gets on in WSBK against the 4's.

No other superbike configuration I have ever owned comes close to the feeling I get from a v-twin.

Maybe I need a go on an v4 aprc or something .... now that sounds way more fun that an HP4

In the Oct 2012 issue of Sport Rider (I believe) Ten Kate was claiming Johnny Rea's CBR1k made in the area of 230+ hp and they felt they were down on HP to BMW and Apilia. All three spin more rpms than the 1199. If Ten Kate's number are true, what would Ducati have to produce to crank out similar numbers? Personally with regard to racing, I don't think they'll be able to stay competitive with a twin for much longer. Street bikes on the other hand........?

I like the twin...


...but part of me wants them to take their desmo 240hp engine, throw it in their next superbike and shock the world with how violently fast it is for a production bike.

Bike manufacturers are trying to balance a fine line between the production bike regulations and superbike regulations since the WSBK has to be homologated from the production bike with few allowed modifications. Of course with the Production bike they make a whole lot of money and the WSBK is really an expense for advertising their production bike. Ever since they started restricting these production bikes electronically back 2001 it hasn't been that fun to ride as it was back then.

For example My 1999 unrestricted Busa was very fast (200+ mph easily with no mods), get up to speed really fast and powerful but it was heavy and it has less HP/torque with 13 years old technology and the 2001 and above restricted bikes can barely get to 186MPH/300Kmh . Thats why I will never get rid of my Unrestricted Busa. Today we see production bikes that are phenomenally lighter, crazy hp and torque that struggles to break the "186MPH/300Kmh restricted barriers" because they are restricted.

the 500 extra RPM's IMHO is that is to help the Ducati's World Superbikes create way more horse power by "tuning" than we will ever see in the production bike. They only did it for the WSBK but had to have it in the production bike to satisfy the WSBK rules as being homologated in the production bike.


http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco/6510004_Anglais.pdf

I'll admit, I came from the RSV4 and miss the V4. I went with the Pani because I didn't want an older gen RSV4 instead of the new generation Pani with the awsome electronics. Otherwise, I may very well have stuck with the Aprilia. Not to say I don't freakishly love my Pani, just that since I don't have a history with the twin, to me, going to V4 would be something I'd actually enjoy.

Xbox said:

...No other superbike configuration I have ever owned comes close to the feeling I get from a v-twin...

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I'm with Xbox on this one - Love the Ducati twin..

But a Desmo L4.. hmm - that would be interesting..

rm4two said:

I brought this exact topic up in the 1199R thread and it either went unnoticed or members thought I was full of shit because it got no traction or response lol. Regardless, I do think the development of the superbike twin has reached or is damn close to reaching it's limits. You can only spin a twin so fast before reliability becomes a problem. As I said in the other thread, I would not be surprised if Ducati went to a V4 Desmosedici-ish design for it's superbike line. I don't see them moving completely away from twins for the other lines, but liter bikes...... the end could be near.

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I actually believed Ducati threw us a red herring when they said the new superbike was to remain a V2. I thought no way,they need to go V4 for the revs and power. Once the real details started filtering through I was really surprised,but hey they have done a stand up job with the ideas brought to reality. I totally agree with you rm4 the V2 is at its limit now even with this new design. Apparently the 1198 was developed to the max hence the Superquadro engine. Ducati will have to concede sometime and use V4 if they want to still go racing in the future and win something. Long live the v twin,I love them. Wont be buying a V4 Duc if one comes out to replace the Pani,but at least Duc have the experience with V4 arcitecture for it not to be to big a leap from what we are used to. Both configurations would just have to stand shoulder to shoulder.

When I bought my first 911 people were writing off the Flat 6 - that was in 1983.

Its my first L-Twin/V-twin and I'm loving it. Thought about adding a V-twin Harley for 1/2 sec to my collection but the other 1/2 of sec I came to my senses and decided to add Multistrada.

geeteethree said:

When I bought my first 911 people were writing off the Flat 6 - that was in 1983.

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I for one hope you're right. However, in the past Ducati's answer has been to increase displacement to keep pace. If that continues, we can expect to see a 1398 sbk in a few years that wont rev any higher.

geeteethree said:

When I bought my first 911 people were writing off the Flat 6 - that was in 1983.

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Right, but even Porsche reached its limits had to give in to water cooling.

I think Ducati can safely go for a V4, and keep its heritage in all its twins in the other models. I think Audi is going to want to win some races, and they can afford to do whatever is needed. Ducati has never had deep pockets like this, it will interesting to see what comes out of VW's collected minds! It is wild to look in my garage, and realize since just this year, my wife's conv beetle, my 911 and Ducati, all became related...

Trauma said:

Right, but even Porsche reached its limits had to give in to water cooling.

I think Ducati can safely go for a V4, and keep its heritage in all its twins in the other models. I think Audi is going to want to win some races, and they can afford to do whatever is needed. Ducati has never had deep pockets like this, it will interesting to see what comes out of VW's collected minds! It is wild to look in my garage, and realize since just this year, my wife's conv beetle, my 911 and Ducati, all became related...

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Who knows, maybe we'll have the last true Ducati Twin Superbike ever made

+1

MacaveliMC said:

Who knows, maybe we'll have the last true Ducati Twin Superbike ever made

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You could well be right there.

Trauma said:

Right, but even Porsche reached its limits had to give in to water cooling.

I think Ducati can safely go for a V4, and keep its heritage in all its twins in the other models. I think Audi is going to want to win some races, and they can afford to do whatever is needed. Ducati has never had deep pockets like this, it will interesting to see what comes out of VW's collected minds! It is wild to look in my garage, and realize since just this year, my wife's conv beetle, my 911 and Ducati, all became related...

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Agreed. If they can make the V4 Desmo engine reliable and with decent service intervals I'll line up "apple-like" to place my order.

You are all wrong. They are bringing out a turbo version, called the 1199T. See video below for details:

Ducati Turbo Touch 1199

You can purchase it here in red:

Ducati Turbo Touch Model 1199 Custom Bike Motorcycle Red | eBay

I do hope they cease production of the 1199 right now and make a 1000cc V4 based on the Desmosedici with a trellis frame. I'll never sell my Pani.