2013 R V's 2015 R

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MUTT1979 I would say your options stock for stock are valid, it doesn't mean that a 15 is going to walk away from a 13-14R either, las mentioned the Suspension is fairly simple upgrade that a quite a few R owners have already done. The think dislike the most about current Ducati's is that there is know after market diagnosis scanner tool, which causes many people to make trips to the dealer for resets, just because 15R went Marelli doesn't mean that will change quickly either.
 
It's newer and more expensive... It's must mean it's better all around and leaps and bounds above the last years R! DUH!!
 
I have been a member (or Moderator) on many motorcycle forums since 2007 and been a track instructor since 2008. It is impossible to count the times i have heard or seen someone "upgrade" to a bike that is 1-2 years newer and has "better" parts or more power (on the spec sheet), only to go to the track and run the EXACT same lap times...i mean down to the tenth. Of course they can always justify their purchase with reasons in their head, and the placebo effect is VERY strong with motorcycles. So as soon as they ride the bike they are going to come with all kinds of things it does better or faster etc...because they need to justify their purchase. But the lap timer doesn't lie (which is why we ALWAYS see people giving opinions on one bike vs another...but we NEVER see somebody posting actual lap times).

Unless somebody is winning World level races, the rider is ALWAYS the limiting factor.

Agree

...but Mutt says "just get the ('15) R", and what he says goes around here haha
 
I would say that the limiting factor on faster lap times is more confidence on the bike, considering they are very similar.

The difference in the bikes is not linear. It is not that you go faster (speed) on the newer bike because it has more HP ( although it does) and it is lighter (yes it is).

It could be the balance of the bike, the balance/power delivery of the engine, the way the electronics makes sure that the bike puts the rubber where the road is.

The extras that the 15R have vs. the 13/14R is what can give you confidence to go faster.


There wouldnt be, unless somebody is running a lap record pace.

I would be willing to bet a paycheck, if somebody runs 1:30 lap times on a '14, they will run 1:30 laptimes on a '15.

There isnt anybody on this board (myself included) who could say their lap times or race finishing positions are being "held back" because they are on a 14R instead of a 15R.

Sure, on a spec sheet, it is relatively easy to point out the differences. But in the real world, the only true thing that might make a difference in lap times is the auto-blipper. And even that is a stretch because while downshifting, you are braking hard (which has to be done whether you are pulling in the clutch or not). The auto-blipper frees up a little concentration, but it isnt necessarily faster. It is just easier. You still have to brake at the same spot.

On every track (except the ones with really long straights), my lap times on the R6 are within a 0.5-1sec of my lap times on the heavily modded RSV4.

I have been a member (or Moderator) on many motorcycle forums since 2007 and been a track instructor since 2008. It is impossible to count the times i have heard or seen someone "upgrade" to a bike that is 1-2 years newer and has "better" parts or more power (on the spec sheet), only to go to the track and run the EXACT same lap times...i mean down to the tenth. Of course they can always justify their purchase with reasons in their head, and the placebo effect is VERY strong with motorcycles. So as soon as they ride the bike they are going to come with all kinds of things it does better or faster etc...because they need to justify their purchase. But the lap timer doesn't lie (which is why we ALWAYS see people giving opinions on one bike vs another...but we NEVER see somebody posting actual lap times).

Unless somebody is winning World level races, the rider is ALWAYS the limiting factor.
 
Hard to believe this is even a discussion - while you're upgrading, modifying, improving & bringing your older bike up to newer bike specs, I'll be out riding the newer bike (if fortunate enough to get one)....I couldn't even begin to think of the extended time, money & overall effort needed to get it all organized and completed - OK, Sean can do it himself in his garage.....not many people can....still doesn't eliminate the "project" it just makes it labor cost free for him

Trade it in or sell it privately & save yourself a lot of time, effort and aggravation...you'll be riding a lot more and have a bike that hasn't been "worked over" to the extent of your shop saying "now what do we do"....

There are situations when things that come from the factory stump the best of shops....imagine handing them a 2013/15 hybrid :)
 
I would say that the limiting factor on faster lap times is more confidence on the bike, considering they are very similar.

The difference in the bikes is not linear. It is not that you go faster (speed) on the newer bike because it has more HP ( although it does) and it is lighter (yes it is).

It could be the balance of the bike, the balance/power delivery of the engine, the way the electronics makes sure that the bike puts the rubber where the road is.

The extras that the 15R have vs. the 13/14R is what can give you confidence to go faster.

I fully agree that confidence is the biggest thing when it comes to going faster (until somebody is running at the pointy end of the Expert grids, when equipment/setup actually has a tangible effect). I have often said you could take the bike from somebody running track days, then bring it back in an hour (having not done a damn thing) and tell them the suspension has been "expertly setup", the brakes have been flushed and bled, and the tires have been rebalanced and are pressured optimally for the conditions......and that person would go out and immediately go faster....even though nothing has been done to the bike.

Confidence is the primary thing holding back most people. The vast majority of riders aren't riding anywhere near the max capabilities of a 2003 R6, much less a 2013 1199R.

My point is that instead of taking an $8000 hit by swapping a 13R for a 15R, somebody could easily just take the 2013 to Dave Moss or Thermosman (Mike Fitzgerald) and have it properly setup, then change some things like rearsets/levers/clip-ons to make the bike more comfortable, then put on some better tires and boom....more confidence. Which means faster lap times.

I still hold to my original point, if somebody is running 1:30's on a 13/14R, they will run 1:30's on a 15R. Sure, there are differences in the bikes, but unless somebody was riding a 13R to its max potential, any differences between the bikes are theoretical (meaning unrealized potential).

In other words, if somebody drives a Camaro to work every day and they decide to trade in their 2010 Camaro on a 2015 Camaro because the 2015 is "faster" or "better"...but all they do is drive to work every day...then any performance difference is unrealized. If somebody never gets over 60mph going to work, then what difference does it make if the newer car is faster (on the spec sheets or because it has better parts)? The specs might be better, but they wont be any faster personally because they werent driving the 2010 Camaro as fast as it could be driven.

If what is needed is more confidence, there are ways to get that without changing bikes.
 
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With all of that being said, i love getting new bikes. If somebody simply wants to trade their 2013R in for a 2015R, more power to them. The bike market needs people spending money and buying bikes. The more money coming into the sport, the better.

There is nothing wrong with getting new bikes. If somebody just wants a new bike, go for it. But they shouldnt do so under the assumption that they will be faster on the new bike or that their riding experience will be drastically different or more fun.
 
Totally agree with the fact that lap times rather than specs are the only true determiner of a superior machine...
I just haven't seen or heard of anyone going faster on a 15vs a 14..

Till we do -will just have to settle on the fact that both are ...... Badazz!
 
I'd like to see an R vs. 1299S comparison (track times) - expert and track day type rider

I forgot his user name now, as he doesn't post much anymore (wonder why:rolleyes:). But the project manager from Ducati that used to post here actually shared that data from their test riders at one point. It's somewhere on the forum. It wasn't much of a difference for normal folks. I think it was 1299=14R>15R but I can't remember.

Edit: TJ99 I think it is.
 
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What TJ said was that at Mugello, the 1299S set faster lap times than any other bike they tested, except the 2015 R and the SL.
 
Damn, yall just keep going after the jugular when someone posts a dissenting opinion...

It's getting a bit ground hog day.

Someone asks, "Is it better" you tell them "Yep" they say "No it's not, it can't be. You're just a member of the public". So why did you f*cking ask?!

Change the record........
 
I don't recall seeing anybody say "No, it isn't better".

My comments were directed towards "real world" results...not spec sheets. In other words, if somebody goes from a 1988 GSX-R600 to a 2013 Panigale R, they will go faster. The bike has tangible differences in weight, power, braking, electronics, suspension, etc. There are many "real world" differences that would result in somebody turning lap times that are several seconds faster.

It is likely than several people on here could out ride the components/capabilities of that old bike. The old bike would be limiting their potential, so going to the 2013 R would net better/faster results.

Going from a 2013 R to a 2015 R, the same doesn't apply. Nobody on here can out ride a 2013 R. Going to a newer model likely would not result in net gains in speed (lap times) because they weren't maximizing the potential of the 2013.

If you don't see the logic in that, then I don't know what to tell you.
 
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