2013 R V's 2015 R

fzr100098 · Jul 20, 2015

I'm not whining, the R1 needs to be destricted for a fair test. The throttle issues and low power numbers are all related to the OEM restrictions and extremely well documented, to meet noise limits. It's a 190 rwhp bike unrestricted and a serious track weapon.

A fair test is both bikes unrestricted they way they were intended. The brand hugging always baffles me - who cares what label is on the bikes, which one is the fastest around a track (if that's your ultimate measure of performance, not for street use)

lamb00j · Jul 20, 2015

how did this go from a ducati 2013R vs ducati 2015R to a yamaha R1M thread?? why do all these threads get highjacked into talking about yamaha R1 and with one common item, the person who talks about it each time in one facet or another...

Mutt1979 · Jul 20, 2015

fzr100098 said:
I'm not whining, the R1 needs to be destricted for a fair test. The throttle issues and low power numbers are all related to the OEM restrictions and extremely well documented, to meet noise limits. It's a 190 rwhp bike unrestricted and a serious track weapon.

A fair test is both bikes unrestricted they way they were intended. The brand hugging always baffles me - who cares what label is on the bikes, which one is the fastest around a track (if that's your ultimate measure of performance, not for street use)

But they're both restricted by the same laws.

Trauma · Jul 20, 2015

It has to be out-of-the box - you change one item then where do you stop? Anyway, the Ducati won, close only counts in horseshoes/hand grenades

AKKutz · Jul 20, 2015

Drove three hours, took my bike and didn't trade. The magazines might say good stuff bout the R1M, but in person it ain't impressive. The carbon, the fit and finish, the Ohlins stuff, all sub-par when compared to my R or the 15 R.

My lust for the 15 R has nothing to do with faster lap times. I really don't care, I'm lucky to be riding since I slammed into a tire wall last October at NCM.

I like the ... appeal. I like the non electric Ohlins, I like the thought of checking my oil every 300 miles cause sbk pistons and two rings will cause the motor to use oil. It's a pinnacle thing. I'm at the age were it turns me on. The R1M didn't, I don't care how much press it gets, it looks like a catfish with no soul, floating belly up dead!

fzr100098 · Jul 20, 2015

akkutz said:
i don't care how much press it gets, it looks like a catfish with no soul, floating belly up dead!

Hilarious.

Is the R Ohlins upgraded from the S (which is reportedly the same as the R1)?

wilkson · Jul 20, 2015

You don't need a Willy Wonka golden ticket to be able to buy a R1 . FFS is you prefer a INL4 to a L twin buy the bike you prefer who gives a .... .
All this talk about comparisons is just someone else's opinion at the end of the day who cares .

AKKutz · Jul 20, 2015

wilkson said:
You don't need a Willy Wonka golden ticket to be able to buy a R1 . FFS is you prefer a INL4 to a L twin buy the bike you prefer who gives a .... .
All this talk about comparisons is just someone else's opinion at the end of the day who cares .

You need a Willy Wonka Gold ticket if you find the R1 isn't to your liking!

sexparty · Jul 20, 2015

Chaotic said:
There wouldnt be, unless somebody is running a lap record pace.

I would be willing to bet a paycheck, if somebody runs 1:30 lap times on a '14, they will run 1:30 laptimes on a '15.

There isnt anybody on this board (myself included) who could say their lap times or race finishing positions are being "held back" because they are on a 14R instead of a 15R.

Sure, on a spec sheet, it is relatively easy to point out the differences. But in the real world, the only true thing that might make a difference in lap times is the auto-blipper. And even that is a stretch because while downshifting, you are braking hard (which has to be done whether you are pulling in the clutch or not). The auto-blipper frees up a little concentration, but it isnt necessarily faster. It is just easier. You still have to brake at the same spot.

On every track (except the ones with really long straights), my lap times on the R6 are within a 0.5-1sec of my lap times on the heavily modded RSV4.

I have been a member (or Moderator) on many motorcycle forums since 2007 and been a track instructor since 2008. It is impossible to count the times i have heard or seen someone "upgrade" to a bike that is 1-2 years newer and has "better" parts or more power (on the spec sheet), only to go to the track and run the EXACT same lap times...i mean down to the tenth. Of course they can always justify their purchase with reasons in their head, and the placebo effect is VERY strong with motorcycles. So as soon as they ride the bike they are going to come with all kinds of things it does better or faster etc...because they need to justify their purchase. But the lap timer doesn't lie (which is why we ALWAYS see people giving opinions on one bike vs another...but we NEVER see somebody posting actual lap times).

Unless somebody is winning World level races, the rider is ALWAYS the limiting factor.

You're right but there is a big difference between a bike being easier to ride at your limit and a bike that makes you work harder to be at your limit. I'd rather be on the bike that's easier to ride and easier to be at my limit than the bike that makes you really work for it.

Chaotic · Jul 20, 2015

fzr100098 said:
Hilarious.

Is the R Ohlins upgraded from the S (which is reportedly the same as the R1)?

The R's is the same as the S except it isn't electronic.

The Avidmoto · Jul 20, 2015

sexparty said:
You're right but there is a big difference between a bike being easier to ride at your limit and a bike that makes you work harder to be at your limit. I'd rather be on the bike that's easier to ride and easier to be at my limit than the bike that makes you really work for it.

I like when my girl makes me work for it!

CaliRosso · Jul 20, 2015

The fact of the matter is there's a Panigale for every perspective and every price point.. All the way from an 899 up to the SL.. And guess what- as far as I'm concerned they're all "better" for me than any Yamaha, Honda, or whatever...
Ducati are an intoxicating "combination of many technical, design, and cultural elements.
Some people get it. Others need articles and spec sheets to make op their minds for them..
For those folks I just say enjoy the R1.. Nice machine..

And as for objective measurement- here's an idea. Let's let groups of trained pros set up the best versions of them all and compete! Oh wait- that's WSBK and I'll be dammed -who didn't just bring home a win..

Jayhawkk · Jul 20, 2015

Who needs wsbk when the bike talks to you?

AKKutz · Jul 21, 2015

Chaotic said:
The R's is the same as the S except it isn't electronic.

Actually, that's an over simplification. The R has true Ohlins road and track fork and while not the GP, a higher spec TTX than the S electronic suspension. Valving and internal components (materials, not just electronic bits) completely different. But of course you would have to look at the Ohlins spec sheets to know this.

Sinjin · Jul 21, 2015

wilkson said:
You don't need a Willy Wonka golden ticket to be able to buy a R1 . FFS is you prefer a INL4 to a L twin buy the bike you prefer who gives a .... .
All this talk about comparisons is just someone else's opinion at the end of the day who cares .

Considering the weight of the bike, best that you lay off the chocolate trying find one...

Chaotic · Jul 21, 2015

AKKutz said:
Actually, that's an over simplification. The R has true Ohlins road and track fork and while not the GP, a higher spec TTX than the S electronic suspension. Valving and internal components (materials, not just electronic bits) completely different. But of course you would have to look at the Ohlins spec sheets to know this.

The S has "true" R&T forks also. The R&T forks are nothing more than a 30mm Cartridge kit inside Ohlins tubes (hence the "NIX30" name). You can buy R&T forks for any bike for about $2,300.

The internal components and materials are the same. The only difference is the R has different valving. And valve stacks can easily (and cheaply) be changed if someone so desires.

The TTX shock is the same. Same materials, etc. It isn't "higher spec", the only one that is higher spec is the SL which comes with a Ti spring to shave weight. Again, the only difference is a small valving change.

From the Ducati specs:

1199R:
Ohlins NIX30 43mm with TiN, fully adjustable USD fork.
1299S:
Ohlins NIX30 43mm with TiN fully adjustable USD fork. Electronic compression and rebound damping adjustment with semi-active mode

Chaotic · Jul 21, 2015

CaliRosso said:
And as for objective measurement- here's an idea. Let's let groups of trained pros set up the best versions of them all and compete! Oh wait- that's WSBK and I'll be dammed -who didn't just bring home a win..

There is nothing objective about WSBK. WSBK results mean nothing as far as we are concerned, or as far as the bikes are concerned. Nothing is the same. The motor, swingarm, electronics, wheels, brakes, triples, linkage, clutch, gas tank, etc, etc, etc...none of it is the same as what we ride. And how good the bike is largely depends on the size of the company and how much money they have (or are willing to spend). Kawi will always have a bigger budget than Ducati.

Personally, i like looking at World Superstock.

Grayson · Jul 21, 2015

All this talk of the R1

Gecko · Jul 21, 2015

Does anybody know whether the crankshaft is the same on the 2015R and the SL? Noboby seems to know

Ljuice26 · Jul 21, 2015

Gecko said:
Does anybody know whether the crankshaft is the same on the 2015R and the SL? Noboby seems to know

If I'd had to guess, I would say no. Very similar, but probably different materials were used. I bet Kope would know or contact Steve Wilf Moore at Moto Rapido. They have torn down a few SLs and 2015 Rs.

2013 R V's 2015 R

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