2015 R longetivity under hard track / race use?

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royal

royal

Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
504
Location
London, UK
Does anyone have any experience of the 2015 R under hard regular track or race use and how well the higher tune engine stands up to abuse? My 2014 1199 S has been bullet proof but now that the manufacturer warranty is nearing it's expiry I'm looking at options and considering the man maths. I test rode a friends 1199 R recently and it was pretty damn awesome but it's still a lot of extra cash over the base or S models. Also the extra reliability of having the power produced by the displacement instead of the tune appeals, although I guess part of that is also the fancy engine parts in the R allowing the higher revs. I've got a 2015 S1000RR for the road so this is only really for the track and not convinced on the need for active suspension for track so a base model with uprated ohlins is an option I'm considering but the R really made the heart beat if I can find the wonga[​IMG]
 
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I can think of dozens of folks here track the R pretty heavy so I'm sure they'll chime in. My guess is it does not. Its more "tune" but its not like a MotoGP bikes where you need to change the engines that is regularity.

I'm sure like your S, check your engine oil often, change oil and other fluids, you'll be fine.

How miles you have on the S?
 
I can chime in. It does not hold up. At just over 1200 miles it started puking oil into the airbox. I recently checked out the vertical cylinder with a borescope and found massive scoring. As you can guess, no support from Ducati. I am currently running it because I have no choice after dumping close to 45k into the bike. I was quoted 7k for a rebuild which requires new sleeves and pistons.

I also believe these are the hardest bikes in the world to setup to go fast. I have rear grip issues constantly. I also have chatter issues under brakking that we have never been able to pin down after changing brakes, forks and lots of testing.

However, I just set a personal best at a race this weekend...

In contrast, I didn't have issues on my 2013 base until around 10k miles at which point it started blowing oil into the airbox... but it had all race miles so it was to be expected.
 
Many many variables here. Diagnostics, maintaining system integrity, attention to detail in prep, selection of components and compatibility of those components bla bla. As we have seen during the last GP race. Even the big buck stuff goes south. These are still mass products and assembled motors. There is no "blueprinting" or so to speak component here. Its a damn good engine for sure and even better is you want to cool it properly and tweak it a tad. Cant say enough for good prep. Track days, unless you run the limiter and neglect some things or have a bad motor out of the box, you should be fine
 
Just enjoy it, You are more likely to crash it than break it and you could worry about any bike breaking down with hard use, dont let that limit your fun!
 
FWIW - I asked this same thing when making my decision. I wanted either the S or the R because I wanted the lightweight wheels while remaining Superstock legal (you can't change the wheels in SS). I was already leaning towards the S because I wanted to try the Dynamic suspension.

I spoke to 2 different shops and they both told me they have several customers who have raced the Panigale over the years, and the only engine failures they have seen have been with the R model. For whatever that is worth (which I know isn't much). He said even if I don't go for the S, I would be better off with the base model 1299 than the R as far as track longevity.

And he was being totally honest, as he really wanted to move one of the R models he had on the floor and stood to make more money by selling it (rather than the 1299). But I asked for his honest opinion and he gave it to me.

Of course, that was just the opinion of those shops. Your results/opinions/etc may vary.
 
As a side note, my tuner feels the rev limit was set on the 1299 for durability reasons. It is still building power as it hits the rev limiter. It isn't like other bikes where it peaks, then you get into "over rev", then the limiter kicks in. When he did the dyno tune (for U4.4 race fuel) on my 1299S, the power curve was still climbing at the same rate, then it hit the rev limiter.

So there is more there, but we aren't going to raise the rev limiter, at least not with the stock internals.
 
Thanks for the input guys, it's very much appreciated. My current 2014 S is on about 10000km and ~40 hard track days and has been completely bullet proof. I've got a Ducati marketing test day at Silverstone on Thursday where I'll get to take a 1299S out on track for the afternoon so that will be interesting but at the moment I'm looking at either the R or the base but with uprated suspension similar to what is on the R. I've got a spare set of lightweight wheels that I could put onto the base model if I went in that direction. I'm hoping to do a bit of racing next year and I guess reliability is better than following the heart!
 
As an extra comment for track, I have recently been black flagged for noise with a totally standard R, yet guys with race systems and high flow filters etc on S bikes were getting no hassle at all.
I was hoping that buying the R would mitigate all the "extra" exhaust spends etc but it appears I am still going to have to mess about with pipes and tuning etc if I want to keep running at our local trackdays (105db ride by limit).
 
990Glen said:
As an extra comment for track, I have recently been black flagged for noise with a totally standard R, yet guys with race systems and high flow filters etc on S bikes were getting no hassle at all.
I was hoping that buying the R would mitigate all the "extra" exhaust spends etc but it appears I am still going to have to mess about with pipes and tuning etc if I want to keep running at our local trackdays (105db ride by limit).
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like they might just have a hard on for you in particular. Have you done/said anything to piss them off at some point?

The R revs a little higher, but it isn't that much. And what are the chances of everyone being exactly at redline at the same point?

That little bit of extra revving isn't enough to make a lot of noise difference, especially when compared to bikes with full racing exhausts. The full exhausts should be much louder than a bike that is revving 500rpm higher, with a standard exhaust.
 
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No Chris, have been riding with them for a few years now without issue.
Only thing I can imagine is that I am a lot more settled with the bike after
owning it a year and maybe just pushing on a little more up the revs than last season.
My style has changed somewhat and I am carrying a lot more revs in lower gears than
I was when I first got it. (Its taken a while to get away from searching the mid range
for the old style motor torque and I keep the motor singing a whole lot more).

One of the pani S lads mentioned that he had a bad few months at the
start of ownership with noise, but it seemed to be more from the induction howl.
He fitted an MWR filter, termis and remapped and has had no more noise issues.
Obviously this is his view of what was happening but other things may have actually
solved his issues. He races so probably dicks about with gearing etc too which may just
shift his changes 20-30 yards from mine relative to the track DB mic. (I never see top
gear on this track).
 
That could be very likely too. He might just be shifting at a different point and crossing the sound check area at a different RPM.

We have a track in Florida that is really bad about that (Jennings). The only good part is that they do it on the main straight, and you can see when they are standing there doing it. So I just short-shift as I exit T14 and make sure im carrying lower RPMs. :D
 
990Glen said:
One of the pani S lads mentioned that he had a bad few months at the
start of ownership with noise, but it seemed to be more from the induction howl.
He fitted an MWR filter, termis and remapped and has had no more noise issues.
Click to expand...
I noticed quite an obvious noise reduction when Ducati brought out one of the software mapping updates in 2014 compared to the earlier 2013 mapping so I can believe this.

There are quite a few points here against the R. The noise thing is particularly irritating as Panigales base and S models are already too loud for a lot of the UK tracks lately due to complaining neighbors and reducing noise limits. They only just scrape through on the loud 105dB days as it is and many tracks that used to be a little lenient are clamping down.
 
lardawge said:
I can chime in. It does not hold up. At just over 1200 miles it started puking oil into the airbox. I recently checked out the vertical cylinder with a borescope and found massive scoring. As you can guess, no support from Ducati. I am currently running it because I have no choice after dumping close to 45k into the bike. I was quoted 7k for a rebuild which requires new sleeves and pistons.

I also believe these are the hardest bikes in the world to setup to go fast. I have rear grip issues constantly. I also have chatter issues under brakking that we have never been able to pin down after changing brakes, forks and lots of testing.

However, I just set a personal best at a race this weekend...

In contrast, I didn't have issues on my 2013 base until around 10k miles at which point it started blowing oil into the airbox... but it had all race miles so it was to be expected.
Click to expand...

....for me....they replaced everything under warranty 100% - no mention of Track Use or Street Use was discussed....
 
had piston's split at the crown on both my old 998R and 999R, have got the old piston somewhere and will get a pic.
They have such a short skirt and are so over square the forces are too much when they are really thrashed over extended periods of time and they do fail unfortunately :(
I'm one of the biggest thrashers going!

ps
great avatar pic royal going over the mountain! :D
 
royal said:
The noise thing is particularly irritating as Panigales base and S models are already too loud for a lot of the UK tracks lately due to complaining neighbors and reducing noise limits. They only just scrape through on the loud 105dB days as it is and many tracks that used to be a little lenient are clamping down.
Click to expand...

I only just scrape onto Cadwell with 105db (was there last night) with my stock 1299s. (I have disconnected the exhaust valve and lock wired it open):(
 
^^ holy crap - i was always wondering how us mortals take that hill.
 

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