2023 V4S Dyno Tunning @ Carita Motorsports in Miami

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DeussenEngines said:
Hey Steve…what’s the DA? In the Video they Post on Instagram you see the fairings on the bike and an exhaust sniffer next to the bike. So I would say they did a tail pipe tune based on a a single cylinder bank.
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Density Altitude=DA…a measure of altitude, relative humidity, and ambient air temps that together affect engine performance numbers.

Not sure what the German translation is lol
 
NYCV4S said:
Yeah I don’t think it’s a fake cause the ceiling lighting reflection on the screen matches the video from Instagram. It’s definitely from them but I get what you’re saying when you say it’s a fake.

… I don’t like that’s it’s not in dyno jet format. I know max numbers doesn’t necessarily mean the best tune. But it is a significant jump in power which is questionable, @DeussenEngines knows his .... when it comes to the v4 platform , for him to not achieve same results now has me questioning if they could of dumped some race gas in the tank for mere number spikes.
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The chart itself is for sure not fake. But there are easy ways to cheat the results. The easiest way is actually taking the very first dyno run as the base line rune. The first runs are always low on power because the tire is still cold and there is a few percent of extra slip that directly translates into lower power numbers. So my standard practice is to perform repeated dyno runs until the last two runs match. I can create the same type of gain on a graph like the one shown by just taking the first run on a cold tire and overlay it with the last stable run on a warm tire without doing any modifications to the map/bike.
 
NYCV4S said:
has me questioning if they could of dumped some race gas in the tank for mere number spikes.
Click to expand...
My race gas comment was a response to what you wrote, not tuning to high octane gas. Merely dumping race gas into the take isn't going to do anything. Maybe the exhaust smells better...but it's still an OEM engine with OEM internals. Let's say the numbers are the result of a race gas tune on the bleeding edge of timing and not a mexican dyno with some fluff. How reliable is that engine going to be?
 
NYCV4S said:
Yeah I don’t think it’s a fake cause the ceiling lighting reflection on the screen matches the video from Instagram. It’s definitely from them but I get what you’re saying when you say it’s a fake.

… I don’t like that’s it’s not in dyno jet format. I know max numbers doesn’t necessarily mean the best tune. But it is a significant jump in power which is questionable, @DeussenEngines knows his .... when it comes to the v4 platform , for him to not achieve same results now has me questioning if they could of dumped some race gas in the tank for mere number spikes.
Click to expand...

Fake as in ........, it doesn't show much of anything - it not legible...
 
bp_SFV4 said:
My race gas comment was a response to what you wrote, not tuning to high octane gas. Merely dumping race gas into the take isn't going to do anything. Maybe the exhaust smells better...but it's still an OEM engine with OEM internals. Let's say the numbers are the result of a race gas tune on the bleeding edge of timing and not a mexican dyno with some fluff. How reliable is that engine going to be?
Click to expand...

the higher octane of race gas only helps if engine performance is knock limited by ignition timing. With higher octane you can put the timing where the engine makes best torque and power. The Ducati V4 engines are not knock limited with premium pump gas under normal ambient conditions the ECU actually features a knock control system that will retard ignition angle to a safe value when combustion knock is detected. This happens when too low octane gas is used or the ambient temperatures are too high.
Most race gas I have come across actually also increase engine performance because the gasoline itself contains oxygen and as most of you know, more oxygen in the cylinder means more performance. E85 on its own is actually also containing a bit more oxygen as well as a better octane number than pump gas. Just the required air-fuel ratio is much different from gasoline and you need about 50% more fuel for the same amount of air and most standard injections systems cannot supply that much more fuel if they are not specifically designed for E85.
 
Guys, no one is trying to cheat with race gas or faking numbers. No point on doing that. The importance of the graph is that all the runs were done on the same day and same dyno. I take this as a few hp gains and better power curve. I spoken to Daniel multiple times and he is very smart.
What you should understand is that a dyno tune will always be a better option than a remote tune. I’m sure that if Daniel had my bike on a dyno he would be able to do a more precise tune.
So no need to create conspiracy theories about the graph, tune, dyno been used here.
 
You can never really equal what a good tuner can do locally. Daniel wrote his tune on a bike where he understood whether his fueling made sense ie: if he had weird fueling in a cylinder (low flow injector say) he'd fix it then carry on. So if your bike varies much from the one he originally mapped on the local guy if he's good he can do better. Only way to compare ship Daniel your bike or put broadbands on it and send him the data.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
My race gas comment was a response to what you wrote, not tuning to high octane gas. Merely dumping race gas into the take isn't going to do anything. Maybe the exhaust smells better...but it's still an OEM engine with OEM internals. Let's say the numbers are the result of a race gas tune on the bleeding edge of timing and not a mexican dyno with some fluff. How reliable is that engine going to be?
Click to expand...

More reliable with can E85 or can race gas than with pump gas as long as it’s a good tune. Pump gas can be inconsistent, can E85 or race gas is a much more consistent formula, so you can not only push the timing a lot, you can run the engine closer to the limit more safely on race gas or can E85 because of its consistancy.
 
Last edited:
DeussenEngines said:
the higher octane of race gas only helps if engine performance is knock limited by ignition timing. With higher octane you can put the timing where the engine makes best torque and power. The Ducati V4 engines are not knock limited with premium pump gas under normal ambient conditions the ECU actually features a knock control system that will retard ignition angle to a safe value when combustion knock is detected. This happens when too low octane gas is used or the ambient temperatures are too high.
Most race gas I have come across actually also increase engine performance because the gasoline itself contains oxygen and as most of you know, more oxygen in the cylinder means more performance. E85 on its own is actually also containing a bit more oxygen as well as a better octane number than pump gas. Just the required air-fuel ratio is much different from gasoline and you need about 50% more fuel for the same amount of air and most standard injections systems cannot supply that much more fuel if they are not specifically designed for E85.
Click to expand...

Yep, on my Porsche we had to add a piggy back extra set of injectors and fuel pump to send more fueling when the E85 tune is turned on.

As an aside, I have your pump fuel tune in my bike and love it…do you supply a race gas tune?
 
Steven31371 said:
Yep, on my Porsche we had to add a piggy back extra set of injectors and fuel pump to send more fueling when the E85 tune is turned on.

As an aside, I have your pump fuel tune in my bike and love it…do you supply a race gas tune?
Click to expand...

I Tune only on premium pump Gas as this is what most everybody here runs even on track. I put a bit of safety margin into the fuelling in my maps so they are on the rich side and you can probably run some oxidized race gas without risk. Stück I would recommend doings some dyno runs on pump gas first and measure AFR on cylinder 1 (front left). Then change fuel and retest.
 
PRV4S357 said:
Guys, no one is trying to cheat with race gas or faking numbers. No point on doing that. The importance of the graph is that all the runs were done on the same day and same dyno. I take this as a few hp gains and better power curve. I spoken to Daniel multiple times and he is very smart.
What you should understand is that a dyno tune will always be a better option than a remote tune. I’m sure that if Daniel had my bike on a dyno he would be able to do a more precise tune.
So no need to create conspiracy theories about the graph, tune, dyno been used here.
Click to expand...

Can you post a legible chart ?
 
baggerman said:
You can never really equal what a good tuner can do locally. Daniel wrote his tune on a bike where he understood whether his fueling made sense ie: if he had weird fueling in a cylinder (low flow injector say) he'd fix it then carry on. So if your bike varies much from the one he originally mapped on the local guy if he's good he can do better. Only way to compare ship Daniel your bike or put broadbands on it and send him the data.
Click to expand...

Exactly, no reason to compare the two as it is not under the same conditions. This is merely another option for those that primarily are local here in Miami.
 
SuperDomestique said:
The forum is very invested in these HP numbers
Click to expand...

I haven’t I’ve personally seen a 1103cc v4 on pump gas hit 220hp on the dyno . That’s why I was intrigued.

Typically with an exhaust , filter & tune , 205-210 is what’s put down to the wheels at least to my knowledge.
 
NYCV4S said:
I haven’t I’ve personally seen a 1103cc v4 on pump gas hit 220hp on the dyno . That’s why I was intrigued.

Typically with an exhaust , filter & tune , 205-210 is what’s put down to the wheels at least to my knowledge.
Click to expand...

I’m not too hung up with the max number, those will vary from dyno to dyno, I visited a dyno last year and got 178 hp with the same mods I have now. Goes to show that it will always be different. To me the most important item to look at is the power curve. The more linear the better the bike feels to me.
 
PRV4S357 said:
I’m not too hung up with the max number, those will vary from dyno to dyno, I visited a dyno last year and got 178 hp with the same mods I have now. Goes to show that it will always be different. To me the most important item to look at is the power curve. The more linear the better the bike feels to me.
Click to expand...

Do you have a clearer picture of the dyno chart you can post again, this way we can see where the changes were in compared to the deussen tune.
 

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