I’m waiting for the tuner to email me a better copy than the picture I took. Hopefully I’ll have it by tomorrow.
2023 V4S Dyno Tunning @ Carita Motorsports in Miami
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I’m waiting for the tuner to email me a better copy than the picture I took. Hopefully I’ll have it by tomorrow.
Is the sample I got from youtube. Nothing more or less. The only thing I know about it is that it takes place in Orlando Fl. Never been there.
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The closing ramp on the cams is now so steep a 2 degree change probably acts more like three. So a couple of degrees mistimed on either intake closing or exhaust closing will have a significant difference in power. Ducati calls out compression 13.5 to 14.5. Lot of power difference between 13.5 and 14.5. I've been looking for thinner head gaskets to see if you can find something to close down the quench and set these to 14.5 if they're not. Typical one is probably 14. Nothing out there. Have to shorten the deck probably. So 225 or maybe a little more on pump gas I think no problem.
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That’s an interesting observation. 13.5 is 93% of 14.5. That’s 200 vs 214 whp on the dyno.
I’m surprised there’s that much variance from the factory - I would have guessed 2-3%.
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As Daniel said, race gas only makes a big difference when the engine is knock limited. Below knock threshold, race gas does little or nothing.
Forced induction cars pick up power dramatically on high octane fuel far more because you turn up the boost than because you throw timing at it - the beauty of boost! The motor in my Supra is like ~200hp NA, ~600hp on pump gas (low boost), and ~1200hp on e85 or c16 (high boost).
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Cam timing variation correction would give you (depends on what you started with)? I wouldn't expect to get a full point of compression but I would expect to be able to get a half. A half needs about a 0.010 inch thinner head gasket. So properly set cams and a half point of compression probably 15 HP. Shortening the quench helps everything, power, fuel economy, octane sensitivity. If I could find thinner gaskets I'd be pulling the heads off.
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In the interest of sloth I'd rather change the gaskets. I wasn't planning to take the motor apart but that thing with Panibadboy's R blowing up has made me a little crazy so I could take it apart and deck it I guess. I have a big I fine toothed flat file. I always feel better when I'm riding stuff I've assembled (motor/chassis failure induced crashaphobia) Still 3 months until I can ride here. I've been trying to figure out if the R cams are different. Can't find the specs.
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They are. They are some information on the website. I don't know if it helps.
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V4Rs have different cams profile, compared to the V4S/Base, as it is easily understandable.
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Sorry, but you cannot just use the ratio between two compression ratios to calculate the performance difference as it is not a linear function. The chart below only goes up to CR12 but you can see that it flattens off at the top. So your 7% difference in CR between 13,5 and 14,5 will on have a much smaller % difference in thermal efficiency.
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Hi Danial, I’m curious if you wanted to increase the power on a V4 S beyond a better air filter,, exhaust, and tune on the bike what would you do?
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Yep I agree. But the improvement I was talking about was decreasing the quench to minimum which is not just the improvement from compression. The second order effects (increased turbulence leading to better chamber mixing, less octane sensitivity, etc) matters. Fixing the cam timing (ducati spec is plus or minus 3 per lobe or a potential error of 6 degrees overlap) is going to help. Setting the valve clearance perfectly, insuring all the throttles are synced, cleaning up anything needed in the ports, minimizing ring end gap etc. Has to be 20 HP in a careful blueprint. BTW do you know the R cam specs? Thanks.
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I think I read somewhere head work didn't improve anything or was speculated that it wouldn't help
DUCATI V4SP ENGINE UPGRADES?????Ducati Forumhttps://ducatiforum.com › ... › Ducati Panigale V4
I'd be more interested in how to add longevity to these engines. 3-5k mi of track/race use and then basically an engine swap is ludicrous. But from what I've read it looks like all these spun bearings occur due to some version of oil starvation. Speaking of was it main or con rod bearings that spun on your engine @craig bush? Ducati did not make it easy to get into the bottom end (hehe) which is so short sighted. It would be nice if you could do con rod bearings at least.
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I was also interested in what your builder determined was the cause of failure. If these are all caused by high rpm oil starvation then the first thing I'd do is blueprint the pump and insure the relief was set exactly where you wanted it. Then I'd data log the oil pressure on track. Rod bearing starvation failures are almost always on the rod furthest away from the pump. SD I disagree on the engine design. You should be able to turn the motor upside down and pull the bottom case off and get to the bearings and gearbox.
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BTW it is of utmost importance that the valve seat prep is appropriate and flawless. Turbulence anywhere near the valve/seat is a flow killer. I haven't had the heads off but I'd expect the ports to be really nice. That being said if I couldn't coax some extra flow out of these heads I'd be really surprised. Wouldn't be much but the point is to get it all from the entire assembly.
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You’d think but there’s some heavy duty baffling in there. This is what you’d be looking at from the underside
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Doesn't the case bolt onto the cylinder block? Looks doable the main saddle access is ok. You could probably undo the rods and mains and pull the crank, pull the pistons to the bottoms of the bores to remove the circlips and pull the rods out. But why? If one has the thing that far apart might as well take the whole thing apart. In spite of how beefy the big end of those rods look the big ends are somewhat oval at high RPM. To ensure the bearings don't touch the journal at the sides at high rpm Ducati, because they're starting with a round bearing bore, has to run the rod bearing clearances bigger. Bigger clearances require more oil flow. If I were building these I'd prep the rods as ovals and cut down the vertical clearance. You have to rebore the big end to get this. Shave some material from the both the rod and cap at the centerline then rebore with shim stock, say .001 inch trapped between the parting face. This allows you to maintain the original side clearance but vertical clearance is now down by .001 inch. That and i'd probably chamfer the trailing edge of the oil drilling opening on the rod journal on the crank.
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one way is blue printing in addition to add a superficial anti friction coating to all the desmo thingy ( I don't know how to call it in english, maybe lobe and rolls ).
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