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I wouldn't recommend running under 91. You risk pre-detonation and damaging your engine, especially using high revs.
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Last year at the NYC IMS the regional service god for Duc told me the stock setup is for 89 octane. I really dont want to get into the science of this, but the fact is that unless you advance timing or raise compression, increasing octane actually slightly reduces horsepower. Urban myth is that using higher octane increases HP, wrong. I don't know the electronics of the Duc, but I know in cars if you use too low of an octane, the knock sensor or even the O2 sensor will pick it up and ...... the timing.
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IMHO, the 89 octane design target seems highly unlikely given that the bike is european and europe uses higher octane, and it's a race bike... They'd be robbing themselves of addition hp if they designed to 89? That makes no sense. IF a bike or car is designed for higher octane, you will get the most hp with that octane, and as you said, with lower octane the ECU will ...... timing as to not cause knock and you'll lose hp. If the engine was designed for 87 or 89, you will not gain hp by using higher octane, as you said.
The question here is just what it was designed for. And personally if the Ducati label says 91, i'd have a hard time believing they make everyone pay extra at the pump just for the hell of it.
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Does the label say 91? I honestly never looked. All I can tell you is what the regional service manager told me to my face. I wondered the same question, but took his word for it, as he is the guy that yahs or nahs questionable warranty claims.Possiblities are that to make use of more octane the required steps may fail emmisions? Maybe the miniscule HP gained isnt worth the warranty issues if someone runs lower octane, and without a knock sensor, holes a piston? Just guesses, but it's what I was told. What I do know is that despite higher octane slightly robbing HP, it will never hurt an engine.
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Perhaps it was designed for 87 to avoid pre-detonation should owner use 87 whether through accident, 91 availability, or choice. However, you will most likely not get any benefits from using 87.
Also, this isn't a car we're talking about here. The 1199 take 3-4 gallons of gas. So, you're probably looking at $0.60 to $1.00 per fill up difference by using 91. Sorry but that doesn't seem as big an issue to me as it would if we're talking about cars with 15-20 gallon tanks.
Also, this isn't a car we're talking about here. The 1199 take 3-4 gallons of gas. So, you're probably looking at $0.60 to $1.00 per fill up difference by using 91. Sorry but that doesn't seem as big an issue to me as it would if we're talking about cars with 15-20 gallon tanks.
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So much confusion when people talk about octane rating. USA vs. other locations. MON vs. RON. We have to make sure we are talking about the same thing.
Too high of octane reduces power very slightly, but unlikely anyone will ever feel that. Might be able to see on a Dyno.
Too low octane will cause reduction in power and fuel efficiency as the engine has to compensate for the lower than needed octane.
Therefore, best to get it right or slightly higher.
Load on the engine and air temperature matters. Higher requires higher octane.
In summary: No way you should run 87 octane on a race track using full throttle and high revs. Especially if warm outside.
From what I understand Australia and USA have same 91-93 octane premium fuel, not 98 octane (unless we are confusing RON/MON).
From the service manual:
Unleaded fuel
Fuel for the US market
95-98 RON
Unleaded fuel with a minimum octane rating of 90 (RON+MON)/2
Too high of octane reduces power very slightly, but unlikely anyone will ever feel that. Might be able to see on a Dyno.
Too low octane will cause reduction in power and fuel efficiency as the engine has to compensate for the lower than needed octane.
Therefore, best to get it right or slightly higher.
Load on the engine and air temperature matters. Higher requires higher octane.
In summary: No way you should run 87 octane on a race track using full throttle and high revs. Especially if warm outside.
From what I understand Australia and USA have same 91-93 octane premium fuel, not 98 octane (unless we are confusing RON/MON).
From the service manual:
Unleaded fuel
Fuel for the US market
95-98 RON
Unleaded fuel with a minimum octane rating of 90 (RON+MON)/2
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Hate to be picky, but.
We have RON here in OZ. There's 91 (which is for lawn mowers and other small engines) and then there's 95 (which is designed for all cars and bikes) and we also have 98 which is the premium version with more fuel system and combustion chamber cleaning additives and 3 more points of octane rating thrown in for good measure.
It's basically the same as they have in Europe which is ROZ . Only the fuel in Europe smells a lot nicer. If I was going to take up petrol sniffing, the European stuff is what I'd be going for.
In the good old USA it's MON.
This results in different numbers(lower) from OZ and Europe fuel for basically the same grade of fuel.
One must be careful to be comparing apples with apples when talking about fuel grades.
Regardless of what it costs per fill up.
You will find that the 1199 uses a similar amount of fuel per mile travelled as the average car.
Whether it's a small tank or a large one the cost per mile is still reliant on the economy(or otherwise) of the engine. The only thing that changes is how many times one has to fill up.
Precisely.
I used to run the higher (98 RON) octane stuff.
But ultimately found that the DUCATI's actually ran much better on the lower octane (95 RON) stuff.
I also run a fuel additive as well to help with keeping things clean in the fuel system and combustion chamber.
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It's not being picky. It's discussing what we have and how they are different.
Typically 3 grades of gas. Cheap, middle and premium. Middle is often just half of the cheap and half of the premium depending on the station. Many just have two storage tanks. In USA we use the averaging method of (RON + MON) /2
And normally end up with 87 (cheap) 89-90 (middle) and 91-93 (premium).
This would be comparable to 91:95:98 you have.
Point above is USA spec is for 90 and above. That would be premium since I have never seem a station with 90 for the mid grade.
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Agree but keep in mind too low of octane can reduce fuel economy. So you may pay less per gallon but get less miles from that gallon.
Nope, very slightly more, not less.
The higher the octane the slower the burn, the slower the burn, the piston is being pushed down for a bit longer resulting in more HP.
More then anything it is to stop the knocking in high compression engines due to abnormal combustion of low octane, [preignition]
But if you have sources like this please bring it.
Fuel Rating - Octane Comparison - Dyno Tests Graphs - Hot Rod Magazine
Many factors determine which octane is best, with elevation and load being high on the list.
I spend a lot of time in the high mountains and just run the best stuff at the gas station for peace of mind, that and in Ca we have such junky gas.
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Even better than tuners or mechanics actually... Powertrain engineering company that designs production and racing engines for applications ranging from BMWs to Indy cars
yes
All of our pumps here in OZ also have dedicated hoses for the different grades of fuel.
Thankfully we don't get cross contaminated fuel as a result.
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