AR Inconel Install

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Trauma said:
Great, kinda a reverse-class-action-suit?
Click to expand...

I guess we are inadvertently aiding AR in legal matters then...

Retraction Watch | Tracking retractions as a window into the scientific process

" And considered from a more cynical point of view, figures like Hwang and Hauser are not outliers so much as one end on a continuum of dishonest behaviors that extend from the cherry-picking of data to fit a chosen hypothesis — which many researchers admit is commonplace — to outright fabrication. "
from article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/m...ious-academic-fraud.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0&hp

"“It was a quest for aesthetics, for beauty — instead of the truth,[.]”"
 
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VAST said:
I guess we are inadvertently aiding AR in legal matters then...

Retraction Watch | Tracking retractions as a window into the scientific process

" And considered from a more cynical point of view, figures like Hwang and Hauser are not outliers so much as one end on a continuum of dishonest behaviors that extend from the cherry-picking of data to fit a chosen hypothesis "” which many researchers admit is commonplace "” to outright fabrication. "
from article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/m...ious-academic-fraud.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0&hp

""It was a quest for aesthetics, for beauty "” instead of the truth,[.]""
Click to expand...

You guys crack me up... Vast I think you're now on the list too...
 
Stw said:
You guys crack me up... Vast I think you're now on the list too...
Click to expand...


I actually blame you stw: you posted that Few Good Man scene which has Jack in a COURTROOM and this unconsciously provoked Rich to use legal threats. I think you subliminally stirred the pot here!
 
VAST said:
I actually blame you stw: you posted that Few Good Man scene which has Jack in a COURTROOM and this unconsciously provoked Rich to use legal threats. I think you subliminally stirred the pot here!
Click to expand...

Yep... I am the bad guy here.. we know that...:D
 
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Wow - ignored this thread for awhile and looks like some serious fireworks going on. .

Disclaimer - I have no interest in the AR exhaust so this is purely my opinion.

There may be some truth to the ram air impacting performance. Last year while I was testing water wetter vs eth glycol for engine temperature performance I came across an effect that I noticed - that clean ram air impacts engine temperature significantly (well anywhere from 10-15 degrees). Try this sometime - go and get the engine nice and warm and go on the highway. Drive behind someone on the highway for awhile and note the engine temp. Drive in a clear lane at the same gear and speed and note the speed. It will surprise you. I don't have the exact numbers from last year, but off the top of my head for eth glycol (regular coolant) - in 3rd gear around 70mph, if you were running behind a car and there wasn't good ram air flow, you would be around 205F. If you had a clear lane with good ram air at that speed/gear the temp would drop to around 190-195. A good 10 degree difference. Water wetter would drop it another 7-8 degrees as well. ..

Obviously this depends upon ambient air, etc, etc. But there was a noticeable difference when you had nice clean air vs say turbulent/non ram air. I didn't expect 10 degrees but sometimes it seemed greater than that . So - I'm not saying as I have no idea how that 10+ degree of engine temp will impact HP/torque in any given rpm range, but there is a difference in temp based on ram air. Go ahead and ride and try it out.
 
anthem said:
There may be some truth to the ram air impacting performance. Last year while I was testing water wetter vs eth glycol for engine temperature performance I came across an effect that I noticed - that clean ram air impacts engine temperature significantly (well anywhere from 10-15 degrees). Try this sometime - go and get the engine nice and warm and go on the highway. Drive behind someone on the highway for awhile and note the engine temp. Drive in a clear lane at the same gear and speed and note the speed. It will surprise you. I don't have the exact numbers from last year, but off the top of my head for eth glycol (regular coolant) - in 3rd gear around 70mph, if you were running behind a car and there wasn't good ram air flow, you would be around 205F. If you had a clear lane with good ram air at that speed/gear the temp would drop to around 190-195. A good 10 degree difference. Water wetter would drop it another 7-8 degrees as well. ..

Obviously this depends upon ambient air, etc, etc. But there was a noticeable difference when you had nice clean air vs say turbulent/non ram air. I didn't expect 10 degrees but sometimes it seemed greater than that . So - I'm not saying as I have no idea how that 10+ degree of engine temp will impact HP/torque in any given rpm range, but there is a difference in temp based on ram air. Go ahead and ride and try it out.
Click to expand...

I would suspect disrupted aero effects, (i.e. turbulence) as the primary cause of the loss of cooling efficiency rather than intake ram air effects. Dead low pressure zones contribute to all kinds of performance issues, from overheating to lack of downforce, or excessive lift, etc.

Laminar intake air flow does indeed affect performance positively.
High performance intake manifold design normally incorporates bell-shaped mouths on the runners which are visible on individual throttle body (itb) set ups to improve flow and reduce "turbulence". The nice thing is you can do searches on patents and read all the "secret" information about these designs. Shh, don't tell anyone though. ;)

I personally run a sheet metal intake manifold that uses them and a velocity stack on my intake pipe (car) which gives good gains with high cfm. Gains are more noticeable on turbo applications due to the huge potential to raise VE. Pressurizing the intake air, say with fans, or a centrifugal supercharger, turbo, etc, will improve performance with the right tuning.

Clean air optimizes the potential, consistency, and efficiency of many parts of the bike, including the suspension system. Controlling the air flow over and through the bike (in this case) is extremely important to maintain the efficiency of the cooling system. Drag is always the enemy, but some design trade-offs are necessary in order to cool the bike properly.

Drafting is great for saving fuel though. Just watch out for potholes and delaminating tires when drafting rigs. :)
 
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WTF - I go away for 8 full hours and no new lawsuits? This thread is getting worse:D
 
WAfatboy.
Thanks for the update on the way the bike runs after the tune.
We spent lots of the time tuning the low and mid throttle area.
The last thing we did on your bike was to test with a +5% and -5% trim to the fuel.
The +5% resulted in a drop in power while the -5% produced the same power curve.
We wanted to make sure that the bike would not lean out at high speed.
Even if the ECU does not add extra fuel for the ram air your A/F rations will still be safe.
The wheel speed sensor was disconnected during the dyno testing.

It is a shame that we did not try tuning the bike without the baffles, it would have been nice to see if this changed the power curve.

Did you get to test the cruise control on the ride to the track ?
 
wmcdonal said:
WAfatboy.
Thanks for the update on the way the bike runs after the tune.
We spent lots of the time tuning the low and mid throttle area.
The last thing we did on your bike was to test with a +5% and -5% trim to the fuel.
The +5% resulted in a drop in power while the -5% produced the same power curve.
We wanted to make sure that the bike would not lean out at high speed.
Even if the ECU does not add extra fuel for the ram air your A/F rations will still be safe.
The wheel speed sensor was disconnected during the dyno testing.

It is a shame that we did not try tuning the bike without the baffles, it would have been nice to see if this changed the power curve.

Did you get to test the cruise control on the ride to the track ?
Click to expand...

Do you think that without the baffles you'd see an increase?

Was the tuning done with one or both baffles?

If you were to remove the baffles now with the same tune will it run lean?
 
Baffles will only effect back pressure not how lean or rich the bike is running.

I believe if you tune the bike inside a 3 sided pyramid with a pentagram drawn on the floor around the work bench while repeating the mantra.... It's not the pipe... it's the fan speed... it's the dyno... it's the tuners fault!

Apparently the work bench should face Mecca for optimum results! :rolleyes:
 
George Villar said:
So what were the final exhaust HP #'s with the tune?
Click to expand...

George I recall WAF saying it was up 3 HP but I'm not sure if that was up 3 from the slip on or up 3 from the reduced hp figure prior to the tune.

But WAF did quote one of his tuners as saying he could have got better HP if he tuned the slip on that he originally started with.

Please correct me if I'm wrong WAF. No need for Fanboy figures thanks Fanboys.
 
Gavin D said:
George I recall WAF saying it was up 3 HP but I'm not sure if that was up 3 from the slip on or up 3 from the reduced hp figure prior to the tune.

But WAF did quote one of his tuners as saying he could have got better HP if he tuned the slip on that he originally started with.

Please correct me if I'm wrong WAF. No need for Fanboy figures thanks Fanboys.
Click to expand...

Lol Gavin... I read it as 3 up from the slips... but I agree it is open to interpretation... and apples to apples Termi vs AR is history.. we will never know now..:(
 

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