AR Inconel Install

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WAfatboy said:
So, I have just come home from picking the bike up.

We have been unable to find either a significant increase in peak HP (only gained 3-4hp) over my bike as it was with Termi slips, or, which is more surprising, any real gain in the mid-range.

The only improvement in performance is due to tuning by Justin & Mr Tuneboy working the 40% throttle mapping.

They believe the Termi slips with stock headers would have returned better numbers.

I asked the Owner/Tech, who is not a Ducati dealer, whether he thought there was an performance benefit of the pipe over my Termi slip setup..."No" was the plain answer. :mad:
Click to expand...

I found this a few pages back George, I hope that answers your last question. More results after WAF hits the Bunbury Dyno around the 6th may.
 
The AR made 175 with two baffles.
The termi full system on the same day same dyno made around 172 or 173.
The AR made more than the full termi in the upper part of the rev range and the full Termi made a little more at the very bottom of the range.

Baffles do make a difference to the A/F ratio.
Anything that changes the exhaust gas speed and or pressure will change the pulse timing in the exhaust system.
Every bike I have tested with and without baffles shows a richer mixture with the baffles in.
 
I got my 1199 Base with AR on with RB evo but then minus RB evo today. If you would like to know more about it you can PM me. But I chalk this up to experience lesson learned. Good and bad.
 
wmcdonal said:
The AR made 175 with two baffles.
The termi full system on the same day same dyno made around 172 or 173.
The AR made more than the full termi in the upper part of the rev range and the full Termi made a little more at the very bottom of the range.

Baffles do make a difference to the A/F ratio.
Anything that changes the exhaust gas speed and or pressure will change the pulse timing in the exhaust system.
Every bike I have tested with and without baffles shows a richer mixture with the baffles in.
Click to expand...

Not wishing to thread jack here but as a sidebar do you intend to have a Termi slip map available for your TB software package for the 1199??
 
wmcdonal said:
The AR made 175 with two baffles.
The termi full system on the same day same dyno made around 172 or 173.
The AR made more than the full termi in the upper part of the rev range and the full Termi made a little more at the very bottom of the range.

Baffles do make a difference to the A/F ratio.
Anything that changes the exhaust gas speed and or pressure will change the pulse timing in the exhaust system.
Every bike I have tested with and without baffles shows a richer mixture with the baffles in.
Click to expand...

Have you thought about pressing charges against AR for the accusations you don't know what you're doing, which is why the numbers aren't high enough?:D
 
thewoot said:
I got my 1199 Base with AR on with RB evo but then minus RB evo today. If you would like to know more about it you can PM me. But I chalk this up to experience lesson learned. Good and bad.
Click to expand...

Why PM? Why not just share?
 
WAF does not have a full Termi system just slip ons!

Was this another bike that your quoting figures from wmcdonal?

You learn something new every day, I never would have thought that the exhaust could change the air fuel mix. I thought the exhaust effected just how well it expelled spent gases so that it could take a fresh mix in more efficiently not the mixture ratio.

Where do you work wmcdonal?
 
thewoot said:
I got my 1199 Base with AR on with RB evo but then minus RB evo today. If you would like to know more about it you can PM me. But I chalk this up to experience lesson learned. Good and bad.
Click to expand...

Yeah... why so mysterious...
 
Stw said:
Tease...:D
Click to expand...

I'm basically giving you bullets. But okay here goes.

I haven't been reading but here's what I got going on. I haven't gotten mine tuned yet either so here we go. Went to go pick up the bike today as I dropped it off last weekend. Had the inconel exhaust and RB Evo installed (with latest map) and both baffles. First fire up without latest upmap installed and it was running rich throughout low-midrange RPM. Installed latest Ducati ECU upmap and it was still rich. So ok I was like wtf. So reverted to and older AR RB map but still rich again. Ok I'm like f it lets take the RB Evo out. Then it ran way better but a bit rich between 4500-6000RPM. Took a baffle out and it made it even better. So not so rich. I however now decided to go the route with getting the ecu tuned versus using an RB module. This thing has gotten a lot of juice through the low-mid RPMs now though and it sounds so awesome! I don't live near any great tuners so we'll see when I can do that. Ended up toasting my right lower oem fairing on my 2 1/2 boring highway ride home right where the bump is at behind the rear brake lever is. Ended up dremel cutting a chunk out and probably a little more as it was not the plastic I could move but the fitment of the pipe. I won't have time to fine tune it till later but it looks ok....kinda like a penis shaped now though LOL.

Realistically, I'm happy with the AR Exhaust...just that. RB EVO thumbs down. I figured I'd buy both as a complete package and not have to mess with anything. I'm not looking for big numbers just good performance all around. So lesson learned there. So I'm going to look at getting the ECU tuned instead. Just don't know where to go. I'm in Eastern Iowa so surrounding states is not out of the question but seriously I wanted to avoid that but to be expected when things don't work. My dealer/tech was super awesome today and I worked with him to tear out the RB unit and put some extra tape around the engine to not heat up the oil so much. He didn't charge me anything and I was there from 10:30AM to 3PM. My dealer is the only one in the state but he's a super guy and wouldn't buy anywhere else. Too bad he doesn't dyno hehehe.

I'm tired from riding home and going to get some martini's and then head out for a long ride tomorrow. Oh and for damn sure this thing needs a heat shield when the engine is just idling after a riding and it's heated up. But it definitely does cool down super fast when you cutoff the engine.
 
Can we actually get some straight answers from anyone?

Mr Tune boy please let me know was that WAFs bike that you compared the AR system with the Full Termi?

WAFs bike was only running one baffle I am sure. Now your saying two?

please some straight up responses would be really nice
 
thewoot said:
I'm basically giving you bullets. But okay here goes.

I haven't been reading but here's what I got going on. I haven't gotten mine tuned yet either so here we go. Went to go pick up the bike today as I dropped it off last weekend. Had the inconel exhaust and RB Evo installed (with latest map) and both baffles. First fire up without latest upmap installed and it was running rich throughout low-midrange RPM. Installed latest Ducati ECU upmap and it was still rich. So ok I was like wtf. So reverted to and older AR RB map but still rich again. Ok I'm like f it lets take the RB Evo out. Then it ran way better but a bit rich between 4500-6000RPM. Took a baffle out and it made it even better. So not so rich. I however now decided to go the route with getting the ecu tuned versus using an RB module. This thing has gotten a lot of juice through the low-mid RPMs now though and it sounds so awesome! I don't live near any great tuners so we'll see when I can do that. Ended up toasting my right lower oem fairing on my 2 1/2 boring highway ride home right where the bump is at behind the rear brake lever is. Ended up dremel cutting a chunk out and probably a little more as it was not the plastic I could move but the fitment of the pipe. I won't have time to fine tune it till later but it looks ok....kinda like a penis shaped now though LOL.

Realistically, I'm happy with the AR Exhaust...just that. RB EVO thumbs down. I figured I'd buy both as a complete package and not have to mess with anything. I'm not looking for big numbers just good performance all around. So lesson learned there. So I'm going to look at getting the ECU tuned instead. Just don't know where to go. I'm in Eastern Iowa so surrounding states is not out of the question but seriously I wanted to avoid that but to be expected when things don't work. My dealer/tech was super awesome today and I worked with him to tear out the RB unit and put some extra tape around the engine to not heat up the oil so much. He didn't charge me anything and I was there from 10:30AM to 3PM. My dealer is the only one in the state but he's a super guy and wouldn't buy anywhere else. Too bad he doesn't dyno hehehe.

I'm tired from riding home and going to get some martini's and then head out for a long ride tomorrow. Oh and for damn sure this thing needs a heat shield when the engine is just idling after a riding and it's heated up. But it definitely does cool down super fast when you cutoff the engine.
Click to expand...

Firstly I don't need bullets..that infers I want to attack and I truly don't... I just want to see AR 's claimed substantiated (or not)..
So you went from a stock system to AR?? Did you do a dyno run prior to swapping pipes?? Did you see the dyno run details of both?? You say bike was running rich .. how did that affect performance?? Odd that AR tuned RB Module wasn't bang on... I thought that was the point???

Re reading I think I see your dealer didn't dyno this bike?? So how did you know its running rich?? I am a little confused... But I am old and its not difficult to do that these days..
 
Last edited:
Stw said:
Firstly I don't need bullets..that infers I want to attack and I truly don't... I just want to see AR 's claimed substantiated (or not)..
So you went from a stock system to AR?? Did you do a dyno run prior to swapping pipes?? Did you see the dyno run details of both?? You say bike was running rich .. how did that affect performance?? Odd that AR tuned RB Module wasn't bang on... I thought that was the point???

Re reading I think I see your dealer didn't dyno this bike?? So how did you know its running rich?? I am a little confused... But I am old and its not difficult to do that these days..
Click to expand...

No, I did not get it dyno'd before hand. The A/F ratio was dumping a lot of fuel and you could just see smell it and it was really rough to the point it could just die when getting on the gas.

The map I got from AR was for an unmapped ducati ecu but it still ran rich for me. I'm assuming due to different fuel from each others' country. I dunno.

Yes, I totally agree with you on the AR tuned RB and that's why I went with the package but like I said lesson learned. I thought maybe it would be ok out of the box. I actually went as far as to call rapidbikeusa.com and talk to a couple guys and they stated "RB Evo is worthless and you should return it" and "it's made in China." Yeahhhhh...... they also suggested straight ECU tuning versus using any type of module. I dunno if that was just to get a sell to send them my ECU but I think I'm going that route regardless. This was my first time with a full exhaust and fuel module. The exhaust I love but the RB turned out to just suck without getting re-tuned to my environment (if thats the case). Obviously there are other factors involved for tuning locally here but it sucks either way as I figured I wouldn't have to worry about it.

After thinking about I am kinda bummed I had to tear up my lower oem fairing so it wouldn't melt and catch on fire but it is what it is and I hope things resolve.
 
George Villar said:
:confused:

I wish someone would post a final word and results...
Click to expand...

There are a results in this thread. Is there a final one? Not gonna be. I believe no matter what, everyone's engines are different. Case in point I remember looking at Nissan GTRs when they first camw out which had all their engines hand put together and they all produced different HP figures. Some lower and some higher. We're never gonna get something for sure. Maybe close I guess. Too many different factors in there unfortunately.

The only thing I can assume is I maybe try the Tuneboy map based off the Aussie maps as they may have same humidity as I do here.

I do wanna tune and clean up my ecu/exhaust though. First time for everything. Gonna call a couple places Monday. If and when I do I will let you know.
 
Last edited:
Sorry, I thought everyone knew I am the person writing the TuneBoy software to reflash the ECU directly.

I tuned one 1199 with the AR exhaust on our Dyno in Sydney last Sunday. This one had the RB module. We removed that and tuned the ECU directly with the TuneBoy software.

As WAF said, I jumped on a flight to Perth (5 and a half hours) and met up with Justin from Pro-Twin, and Todd from Bunbury Ducati. Justin worked for VeeTwo in WA for 15 years making custom parts for Ducati's and building race motors (he knows his ....). Todd does the tuning down in Bunbury and also knows his way around a dyno and Ducati's.

Justin and Todd did the tuning while I gave pointers on using the TuneBoy software. We started with the map I made in Sydney and adjusted to this bike.

Once WAF's bike was done we rolled it off the dyno and put another 1199 on the dyno. This next one had the 70mm full Termi system - not the long header SuperStock system - just the normal full termi system. This was the bike that WAF referred to as the "New bike with 400km" in his first posts.

So the bikes I am comparing are WAF's with the AR system, and a second 1199 with a full Termi exhaust.

I then got on a flight back to Sydney via Melbourne; eight hours later I was back in Sydney at midnight.

I will be tuning another 1199 on my Dyno with the Termi slip-on system.
Once I do that I will be happy to post the graph of the AR and Termi Slip-on.
After WAF's bike was tuned, another mechanic from Pro-Twin took the bike for a test ride. He was very impressed with the way the bike felt to ride.

I think the trip to Perth was worthwhile as it gave me some feedback from the dyno operator's.

The photo's of the dyno room at Pro-Twin are a little misleading - yes the two little DynoJet fans don't look like they are up to the task. What you cannot see in the pictures is the big extraction fan in the roof. With this fan running the air coming into the room towards the bike has some force behind it. This allows the DynoJet fans to be pointed at the ram air inlets to make sure the airbox has cool air coming in.

I am trying to stay neutral on this thread.
 
wmcdonal said:
The AR made 175 with two baffles.
The termi full system on the same day same dyno made around 172 or 173.
The AR made more than the full termi in the upper part of the rev range and the full Termi made a little more at the very bottom of the range.

Baffles do make a difference to the A/F ratio.
Anything that changes the exhaust gas speed and or pressure will change the pulse timing in the exhaust system.
Every bike I have tested with and without baffles shows a richer mixture with the baffles in.
Click to expand...

Thanks, some here don't know as much at they think.
 

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