AR Inconel Install

Trauma · Apr 28, 2013

I think the big hole, is an example of anyone testing the same bike on Termi slip/full against AR. Both versions being tuned to the max on a dyno.

Stw · Apr 28, 2013

ttkarp said:
My team of lawyers is on standby Seriously though, I don't want to scroll back through and I can't remember, is there another example yet of anyone else finding a big performance difference one way or the other?

Well 'Big" is a very malleable word here... Not sure anyone has gotten huge gains using any particular set up.. I think personally going 15/41 sprocket arrangement would give the appearance of a great boost in performance.. I am going that route... otherwise I think it comes down to that oft used expression Tuning.. but as we all know that's a huge can of worms anyway.

..Bike has plenty of power... with slips sounds really nice... I'm not sure there's much more power available without spending $000's on engine mods..
The true answer is buy a S1000 if you want a real gain in power... its ugly.. but a great bike...otherwise just enjoy what you have and realise its a beautiful bike and will always get the looks at Starbux..lol

ttkarp · Apr 28, 2013

Stw said:
Well 'Big" is a very malleable word here... Not sure anyone has gotten huge gains using any particular set up.. I think personally going 15/41 sprocket arrangement would give the appearance of a great boost in performance.. I am going that route... otherwise I think it comes down to that oft used expression Tuning.. but as we all know that's a huge can of worms anyway...Bike has plenty of power... with slips sounds really nice... I'm not sure there's much more power available without spending $000's on engine mods..
The true answer is buy a S1000 if you want a real gain in power... its ugly.. but a great bike...otherwise just enjoy what you have and realise its a beautiful bike and will always get the looks at Starbux..lol

Having the termi slips, dp rearsets, and 41T installed this week. I'm still running the original ecu map too. All told, should liven it up quite a bit I would think. I agree on the S1000R, especially that it's ugly!

Stw · Apr 28, 2013

ttkarp said:
Having the termi slips, dp rearsets, and 41T installed this week. I'm still running the original ecu map too. All told, should liven it up quite a bit I would think. I agree on the S1000R, especially that it's ugly!

Cool... Fascinated to get your feedback on the sprocket change..Slips don't do much of anything for power ..but they look great and sound really good... its not that their louder but the bike seems to hit a sweeter note.. IMHO..

d1098man · Apr 28, 2013

I think this thread is so drawn out mainly because alot of people had interest in this system initially....n consistent ducati owners were looking for a good alternative other than termi's n akra....i also think alot of people are still hoping for it to live up to its big claims thats why the thread is still going

ttkarp · Apr 28, 2013

d1098man said:
I think this thread is so drawn out mainly because alot of people had interest in this system initially....n consistent ducati owners were looking for a good alternative other than termi's n akra....i also think alot of people are still hoping for it to live up to its big claims thats why the thread is still going

Even if it doesn't prove to offer much advantage in performance over any other tuned system, it still offers a unique choice in terms of appearance and sound. The good thing about this painful thread is that potential buyers now have a more realistic expectation of what they're getting before placing the order.

Notec · Apr 28, 2013

Stw said:
Cliff notes version of this thread....

Ar's claims for the benefits of their pipe appear dubious at best..
Pipe looks great
Pipe sounds great
Pipe is made of Inconel
Despite claims to the contrary a heat shield is a must
Pipe does'nt produce anywhere close to the numbers previously touted by AR
Air must be blown into your bike at 150mph
98 Ron fuel must be used.
Gavin and I are being sued for questioning the veracity of said claims
Melted fairing have occured on both bikes fitted with AR pipe
RapidBike Module supplied with AR map appears .. well not sure ..shall we say unusable??
There maybe more magical potions/remedies I have omitted here??

Oh..Almost forget... Ozzie tuners and their dynos are crap...

Some of this is misleading.
AR stated that in order to reproduce their results, the Panigale must be tuned with a fan in front to direct track like wind speeds (150mph+) at the air intakes. This was also confirmed by another tuner/race shop operator.

This bit of information was not really mentioned before this thread. I have a problem with this because many owners will very rarely track this motorcycle. And considering the massive loss in midrange power and torque (compared to Termi slipons) without the fan, does this translate to a reduction in street and offtrack performance?

Also, WAf stated his fairing was melted before installing the AR exhaust. So technically, it only melted The Woot's fairing.
Was that installer error or was it really due to the exhaust. I will openly say that some Ducati techs are idiots and nothing more than mechanics. The 2 dealerships within 60 miles of me have absolutely worthless techs and I would not trust them to install any aftermarket component.

Other than that, everything is spot on.

Notec · Apr 28, 2013

ttkarp said:
Even if it doesn't prove to offer much advantage in performance over any other tuned system, it still offers a unique choice in terms of appearance and sound. The good thing about this painful thread is that potential buyers now have a more realistic expectation of what they're getting before placing the order.

Spot on.

thewoot · Apr 28, 2013

DRSapp said:
Woot - Did you have the Slip-ons prior or did the AR system replace a fully Stock system?

I had stock and replaced with AR

ttkarp · Apr 28, 2013

Notec said:
Some of this is misleading.
AR stated that in order to reproduce their results, the Panigale must be tuned with a fan in front to direct track like wind speeds (150mph+) at the air intakes. This was also confirmed by another tuner/race shop operator.

This bit of information was not really mentioned before this thread. I have a problem with this because many owners will very rarely track this motorcycle. And considering the massive loss in midrange power and torque (compared to Termi slipons) without the fan, does this translate to a reduction in street and offtrack performance?

Also, WAf stated his fairing was melted before installing the AR exhaust. So technically, it only melted The Woot's fairing.
Was that installer error or was it really due to the exhaust. I will openly say that some Ducati techs are idiots and nothing more than mechanics. The 2 dealerships within 60 miles of me have absolutely worthless techs and I would not trust them to install any aftermarket component.

Other than that, everything is spot on.

I'm sure all tuners are not created equal, but WAF had tuneboy himself working on his bike. So, I don't think we can chalk that one up to operator error.

Notec · Apr 28, 2013

ttkarp said:
I'm sure all tuners are not created equal, but WAF had tuneboy himself working on his bike. So, I don't think we can chalk that one up to operator error.

Sorry, was referring to the exhaust melting the fairing if that wasn't clear.

ttkarp · Apr 28, 2013

Notec said:
Sorry, was referring to the exhaust melting the fairing if that wasn't clear.

My bad. You were clear after a re-read!

Trauma · Apr 28, 2013

Notec said:
Sorry, was referring to the exhaust melting the fairing if that wasn't clear.

AR admitted to fairing problems, and starting including special tape, so there is a real issue.

wmcdonal · Apr 28, 2013

Both AR systems tested in this thread had two baffles fitted.
I would like to get Copiya's bike back to do some tests with one and none.
No charge to him, just a test.
The results AR published are based on the bad termi mapping, Todd confirmed that the Termi slip-on system made more power without the up-map, then Ducati updated the tune in the ECU to fix this.
All tests here compare the corrected Termi mapping.
The air pressure sensor on the Panigale is in the dash, this is why it is important to tune with the wheel speed disconnected. Most other makes of motorcycle have the barometric pressure sensor in the airbox to correct for ram air.
If wheel speed is disconnected the only difference blowing air will do is to increase the power figure, this in my opinion will be the case for all exhausts tested.

Stw · Apr 28, 2013

wmcdonal said:
Both AR systems tested in this thread had two baffles fitted.
I would like to get Copiya's bike back to do some tests with one and none.
No charge to him, just a test.
The results AR published are based on the bad termi mapping, Todd confirmed that the Termi slip-on system made more power without the up-map, then Ducati updated the tune in the ECU to fix this.
All tests here compare the corrected Termi mapping.
The air pressure sensor on the Panigale is in the dash, this is why it is important to tune with the wheel speed disconnected. Most other makes of motorcycle have the barometric pressure sensor in the airbox to correct for ram air.
If wheel speed is disconnected the only difference blowing air will do is to increase the power figure, this in my opinion will be the case for all exhausts tested.

So any test Waf now does are really pointless?? In other words you guys have done everything you can in real world to extract all the power you can and any further finessing and "gains" are really a false positive??

Am I understanding you correctly??

thewoot · Apr 28, 2013

Notec said:
Sorry, was referring to the exhaust melting the fairing if that wasn't clear.

No, my ducati dealer/mechanic has been in the biz while he was in the womb lol. He's a really great guy and couldn't do anything about it as it was just how the AR mounted. There is literally no way to move it. It sat really high and made a contact with a large area. I've attached photo's.

2013RedSabs · Apr 28, 2013

wmcdonal said:
Both AR systems tested in this thread had two baffles fitted.
I would like to get Copiya's bike back to do some tests with one and none.
No charge to him, just a test.

Now we are starting to get some where.

Test, test, test...

This kind of offer reminds me of the time I offered my bike instructor to take my then brand new Panigale for a spin in the middle of one of his classes. He said, "Well I can't say no to that" and went for a ride! Hey at least he had his priorities straight.....poor students.

Stw · Apr 28, 2013

thewoot said:
No, my ducati dealer/mechanic has been in the biz while he was in the womb lol. He's a really great guy and couldn't do anything about it as it was just how the AR mounted. There is literally no way to move it. It sat really high and made a contact with a large area. I've attached photo's.

Another Troll...

thewoot · Apr 28, 2013

Trauma said:
AR admitted to fairing problems, and starting including special tape, so there is a real issue.

It was just reflective heat tape. I even layered on like 5 more layers. And it do anything but melt to my AR exhaust and I can kinda scrape it off but it's burned in. It scorched a chunk in my fairing.

Notec · Apr 28, 2013

Trauma said:
AR admitted to fairing problems, and starting including special tape, so there is a real issue.

I thought they included tape originally, but then began to include "extra" tape as a precaution? Maybe I misread. But still, if I install a product and don't check to ensure that there is sufficient clearance, who's to blame?

I've seen Porsches and BMWs with aftermarket exhausts that were installed in too close proximity to rear valances/bumpers and the result was melted plastic or burned carbon. This was due to physical contact and not fireballs and such. Exhaust components shift from vibration and expand and contract when heated and cooled. That should always be kept in mind. If a product does not fit correctly, an installer/technician should remedy the condition or remove the defective part and definitely inform the owner of a problem or potential problem. Mechanics simply install/hack and send you on your way.

Totally unrelated but this is why I love Akrapovic's installation manuals. They recommend having the installation performed by "someone with sufficient knowledge of exhaust systems." Clearly Ducati could learn a thing or two from them as well...

AR Inconel Install

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