AR Inconel Install

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Rich22 said:
Trauma

Was not going to post again in this thread but in answer to your questions.

you seem like a level headed kind of guy with a strong and some times controversial opinion.

Do you honestly think we would or even could falsify dyno results! no. What would the point be? AR has a great and honest reputation, why would we jeopardise that!

What amazes me is that a few amongst you are conveniently blind to other dyno results such as Copiya's that substantiate our results. Why some choose to ignore these seems to me to just show the fact they have got it in for AR and what ever i say falls on deaf ears.

We will post up a batch of results from other bikes in a new thread but again I'm sure some will simply say we falsified them.

To clarify we never once slated another manufacturer we simply showed you our like for like test results, if any think otherwise then you are simply wrong and need to read all the threads and posts to make it clear to you.

Regarding legal implications of some posts, why should a member get away with posting utter lies and attempting to blacken the name of AR? the fact is it is wrong and as such we will do everything within our power to protect our good name.

Again, thankyou for all the PM support from all the level headed members that DO, read the threads and posts from start to finish so they have the correct informed facts.
Click to expand...

Rich..

Once again your paranoia and childish crying shines through....

You have 2 customers on here that are struggling to get your pipe to be effectual.. and one in particular who even bought the fuel module you recommend loaded with YOUR tune who still is having issues.... How about addressing that?? Whats todays excuse going to be for that?? Does Woot "have it in for you too??

No one is trying to blacken your name ... and as Gavin has pointed out ..AR have done a sterling job of doing that without anyones assistance..

You really had the undivided attention of this forum and everyone (including me) had great hopes for this set up..but day by day we build an information data base that
1. seems to reveal an issue with your product and its ability to perform as advertised and
2. Shows AR is unable to deal with these issues in an adult and responsible manner..

As a 1199 owner and fellow forum member I once again ask you to address these things and stop stonewalling ...
 
Rich22 said:
Trauma

Was not going to post again in this thread but in answer to your questions.

you seem like a level headed kind of guy with a strong and some times controversial opinion.

Do you honestly think we would or even could falsify dyno results! no. What would the point be? AR has a great and honest reputation, why would we jeopardise that!

What amazes me is that a few amongst you are conveniently blind to other dyno results such as Copiya's that substantiate our results. Why some choose to ignore these seems to me to just show the fact they have got it in for AR and what ever i say falls on deaf ears.

We will post up a batch of results from other bikes in a new thread but again I'm sure some will simply say we falsified them.

To clarify we never once slated another manufacturer we simply showed you our like for like test results, if any think otherwise then you are simply wrong and need to read all the threads and posts to make it clear to you.

Regarding legal implications of some posts, why should a member get away with posting utter lies and attempting to blacken the name of AR? the fact is it is wrong and as such we will do everything within our power to protect our good name.

Again, thankyou for all the PM support from all the level headed members that DO, read the threads and posts from start to finish so they have the correct informed facts.
Click to expand...

I have said over and over, I don't believe you would EVER falsifiy results. period. I cannot control what others say. I think this was handled poorly on both fronts, but I also believe in the end this will not prevent sales from those that would have anyway.
 
Correct, it has nil affect on sales as the truth always outs in the end.

We have posted our results and answered questions.

If a new thread is started that is kept under control then i am happy to post up results from bikes fitted with our system. I will also answer any rapidbike queries you might have

I am not though prepared to listen to the pointless ramblings of a few on a pointless get at AR campaign.
 
Trauma said:
I have said over and over, I don't believe you would EVER falsifiy results. period. I cannot control what others say. I think this was handled poorly on both fronts, but I also believe in the end this will not prevent sales from those that would have anyway.
Click to expand...

I'll try to BOLD the areas of importance so maybe Rich will pick up on it:

I don't recall ANYONE suggesting AR lied. I think the question that has evolved over the course of this thread is based on a true "head to head" between the current Termi systems (updated), or better yet perfectly tuned Termi systems, how does the perfectly tuned AR compare? The marketing claims that are on the AR website and have been shared as "fact" here, are not truly accurate based on the current parameters. Rather than addressing that, Rich wants to sue everyone and ignore the question. Wouldn't it be more prudent to give the AR perspective on it? "We stand by our results" doesn't answer the new questions that are being posed here.

If I were representing the company, I might even attempt to address the other claims of heat issues, and the RB unit issues that have arisen here. But...sadly, we know that won't happen either.

I don't think any of the questions are out of bounds. I think they could be addressed with some honesty. Maybe "we don't know" is the answer. But suing people, blaming everyone else and ignoring the issues just isn't working.
 
Trauma said:
I have said over and over, I don't believe you would EVER falsifiy results. period. I cannot control what others say. I think this was handled poorly on both fronts, but I also believe in the end this will not prevent sales from those that would have anyway.
Click to expand...

It would be hard to measure what "would have been" sales. But, if I was in the market for an exhaust, I would find value in this thread. Luckily, most prospective buyers are probably not seeing this anyway.

Rich: Do the "pointless ramblings of a few on a pointless get at AR campaign" include the two on this thread that have already purchased your product and are having issues with it?
 
Last edited:
ttKarp

Exactly the kind of response i am talking about!!!

What is up with you?

I just said i will start a thread and answer questions on any subject.

If you want us to depart from this forum then carry on as you are.

You just don't read the posts thoroughly before you post ridiculous comments like
"If I were representing the company, I might even attempt to address the other claims of heat issues, and the RB unit issues that have arisen here. But...sadly, we know that won't happen either"
 
Rich22 said:
Correct, it has nil affect on sales as the truth always outs in the end.

We have posted our results and answered questions.

If a new thread is started that is kept under control then i am happy to post up results from bikes fitted with our system. I will also answer any rapidbike queries you might have

I am not though prepared to listen to the pointless ramblings of a few on a pointless get at AR campaign.
Click to expand...

Caveat emptor

Our results not yours! :eek:

Kept under control..... Don't question our results or how we got them! :confused:

I will answer RB queries so long as they favour AR or the sale of our system and shall ignore any queries that may not favour AR or the sale of our systems!
:rolleyes:

That's how I read that post!
 
Rich22 said:
ttKarp

Exactly the kind of response i am talking about!!!

What is up with you?

I just said i will start a thread and answer questions on any subject.

If you want us to depart from this forum then carry on as you are.

You just don't read the posts thoroughly before you post ridiculous comments like
"If I were representing the company, I might even attempt to address the other claims of heat issues, and the RB unit issues that have arisen here. But...sadly, we know that won't happen either"
Click to expand...

Check the timing of the posts there Richie. I was typing my issue clarifying post (which you've conveniently ignored....again) when you posted your "I promise I won't ignore all of your questions on a different thread like i am on this one" response.

But, so be it. Hopefully, for everyone sake, you really will answer questions at some point.
 
Last edited:
iamlance said:
Vaginitis.
Click to expand...

no, seriously.

is a thread in a forum the right way to solve this problem?

i know this is a kind of late here, and i truly understand the disappointment.

but with "others" (i mean non-customers) chiming in here ... do you all really think you can get something solved there with all the words and arguments?


just as a side note.

btw, i am on neithers' side or on any team. i just want the forum to be a good forum.
 
Phil said:
no, seriously.

is a thread in a forum the right way to solve this problem?

i know this is a kind of late here, and i truly understand the disappointment.

but with "others" (i mean non-customers) chiming in here ... do you all really think you can get something solved there with all the words and arguments?


just as a side note.

btw, i am on neithers' side or on any team. i just want the forum to be a good forum.
Click to expand...

What exactly is a forum for if you can't discuss things with words and arguments? I'm the first to admit this has dragged on far too long. But it could have ended days ago, and everyone would be far more satisfied, if AR would address the damn situation with new information. I'll say it again though, I think is thread is very valuable to prospective buyers. We've all learned a great deal about this bike and what needs to be done to optimize performance. We still don't know much about the AR exhaust, but its not for lack of trying.
 
Here is my opinion - I want guys like Rich and Tuneboy, and others in here. I would prefer more engineers, developers, etc in the forum. So I really don't understand why a few idiots are trying to drive them out. No matter if you want the exhaust (or anything else) from him/them - the more people who know deeply about a product, the better. You guys are taking him to task because certain performance characteristics haven't been met. I don't see anyone taking Ducati to task because they haven't hit the 195hp DIN or SAE that Ducati claim or that sometimes Termi slips outperform the full either. . .

But thats not the point. The goal is to have more knowledge on here. And whether that knowledge is from an engineer at Ducati, a product developer at Austin, or even a technician at Honda - it doesn't matter. You guys treat people selling farkles who know nothing about the engineering underneath and yet give someone who is trying to do the right thing and provide information this much grief ?

Look the reality with most exhausts is that you might gain some performance from a decent tune. The jumps aren't going to be huge and there are huge variances between bikes, countries, dyno's, etc. The termi's aren't a bad exhaust for a reason - and any improvements are going to be incremental. We all pretty much know this. While I understand that some may be disappointed in whatever those results might be, the reality is that you really wanted those gains, but probably also fully knew that it probably wasn't going to be that large. If you want to believe marketing, you can drop an air filter in and get 7hp gain just like that.. . . c'mon.

Disclaimer: I have zero interest in Rich's exhaust - before or after these results. I do have an interest in having him and his knowledge stay in this forum as he's contributed a helluva lot more in content than quite a few others here who have no real business here (not interested in buying the exhaust and not contributing any sort of content either). Now, thats not saying anyone is not entitled to their opinion either, but whats been posted here isn't about opinions. I'd take knowledge over brainless idiocy any day.
 
Have I missed a chart from another AR owner that replicates the AR results?
 
anthem said:
Here is my opinion - I want guys like Rich and Tuneboy, and others in here. I would prefer more engineers, developers, etc in the forum. So I really don't understand why a few idiots are trying to drive them out. No matter if you want the exhaust (or anything else) from him/them - the more people who know deeply about a product, the better. You guys are taking him to task because certain performance characteristics haven't been met. I don't see anyone taking Ducati to task because they haven't hit the 195hp DIN or SAE that Ducati claim or that sometimes Termi slips outperform the full either. . .

But thats not the point. The goal is to have more knowledge on here. And whether that knowledge is from an engineer at Ducati, a product developer at Austin, or even a technician at Honda - it doesn't matter. You guys treat people selling farkles who know nothing about the engineering underneath and yet give someone who is trying to do the right thing and provide information this much grief ?

Look the reality with most exhausts is that you might gain some performance from a decent tune. The jumps aren't going to be huge and there are huge variances between bikes, countries, dyno's, etc. The termi's aren't a bad exhaust for a reason - and any improvements are going to be incremental. We all pretty much know this. While I understand that some may be disappointed in whatever those results might be, the reality is that you really wanted those gains, but probably also fully knew that it probably wasn't going to be that large. If you want to believe marketing, you can drop an air filter in and get 7hp gain just like that.. . . c'mon.

Disclaimer: I have zero interest in Rich's exhaust - before or after these results. I do have an interest in having him and his knowledge stay in this forum as he's contributed a helluva lot more in content than quite a few others here who have no real business here (not interested in buying the exhaust and not contributing any sort of content either). Now, thats not saying anyone is not entitled to their opinion either, but whats been posted here isn't about opinions. I'd take knowledge over brainless idiocy any day.
Click to expand...

Their knowledge, along with any other commercial entity that chooses to engage, has to be taken in the context of their desire to sell product, they are not good samaritans. Equally you can't on one hand take a stance as a valuable contributor but then shrug off repeated product claims as 'buyer beware' as you seem to suggest above. Also as a community we should not threaten each other, that crosses a line that no amount of knowledge can justify. No special treatment.
 
ttkarp said:
What exactly is a forum for if you can't discuss things with words and arguments? I'm the first to admit this has dragged on far too long. But it could have ended days ago, and everyone would be far more satisfied, if AR would address the damn situation with new information. I'll say it again though, I think is thread is very valuable to prospective buyers. We've all learned a great deal about this bike and what needs to be done to optimize performance. We still don't know much about the AR exhaust, but its not for lack of trying.
Click to expand...

IMHO, it would look better (for everyone), if AR had the chance to get something resolved before dragging it through 37 pages in a thread.

optimal route:
purchase, installation, test, happy customer.

semi optimal route:
purchase, installation, test, unhappy customer, contact vendor, fix problem, installation, test, sort of refund, happy customer, write on the forum how it went and make people smarter

this route:
purchase, installation, test, unhappy customer, start thread, ... well you know the rest...






self reflection, control of emotions, and so on...

and don't tell me "my money, my money". every government around the globe is wasting every taxpayers' money - who cares?
 
anthem said:
Here is my opinion - I want guys like Rich and Tuneboy, and others in here. I would prefer more engineers, developers, etc in the forum. So I really don't understand why a few idiots are trying to drive them out. No matter if you want the exhaust (or anything else) from him/them - the more people who know deeply about a product, the better. You guys are taking him to task because certain performance characteristics haven't been met. I don't see anyone taking Ducati to task because they haven't hit the 195hp DIN or SAE that Ducati claim or that sometimes Termi slips outperform the full either. . .

But thats not the point. The goal is to have more knowledge on here. And whether that knowledge is from an engineer at Ducati, a product developer at Austin, or even a technician at Honda - it doesn't matter. You guys treat people selling farkles who know nothing about the engineering underneath and yet give someone who is trying to do the right thing and provide information this much grief ?

Look the reality with most exhausts is that you might gain some performance from a decent tune. The jumps aren't going to be huge and there are huge variances between bikes, countries, dyno's, etc. The termi's aren't a bad exhaust for a reason - and any improvements are going to be incremental. We all pretty much know this. While I understand that some may be disappointed in whatever those results might be, the reality is that you really wanted those gains, but probably also fully knew that it probably wasn't going to be that large. If you want to believe marketing, you can drop an air filter in and get 7hp gain just like that.. . . c'mon.

Disclaimer: I have zero interest in Rich's exhaust - before or after these results. I do have an interest in having him and his knowledge stay in this forum as he's contributed a helluva lot more in content than quite a few others here who have no real business here (not interested in buying the exhaust and not contributing any sort of content either). Now, thats not saying anyone is not entitled to their opinion either, but whats been posted here isn't about opinions. I'd take knowledge over brainless idiocy any day.
Click to expand...


Hey Anthem...Just what content... that AR have contributed... are you referring to exactly??:confused:
 
anthem said:
Here is my opinion - I want guys like Rich and Tuneboy, and others in here. I would prefer more engineers, developers, etc in the forum. So I really don't understand why a few idiots are trying to drive them out. No matter if you want the exhaust (or anything else) from him/them - the more people who know deeply about a product, the better. You guys are taking him to task because certain performance characteristics haven't been met. I don't see anyone taking Ducati to task because they haven't hit the 195hp DIN or SAE that Ducati claim or that sometimes Termi slips outperform the full either. . .

But thats not the point. The goal is to have more knowledge on here. And whether that knowledge is from an engineer at Ducati, a product developer at Austin, or even a technician at Honda - it doesn't matter. You guys treat people selling farkles who know nothing about the engineering underneath and yet give someone who is trying to do the right thing and provide information this much grief ?

Look the reality with most exhausts is that you might gain some performance from a decent tune. The jumps aren't going to be huge and there are huge variances between bikes, countries, dyno's, etc. The termi's aren't a bad exhaust for a reason - and any improvements are going to be incremental. We all pretty much know this. While I understand that some may be disappointed in whatever those results might be, the reality is that you really wanted those gains, but probably also fully knew that it probably wasn't going to be that large. If you want to believe marketing, you can drop an air filter in and get 7hp gain just like that.. . . c'mon.

Disclaimer: I have zero interest in Rich's exhaust - before or after these results. I do have an interest in having him and his knowledge stay in this forum as he's contributed a helluva lot more in content than quite a few others here who have no real business here (not interested in buying the exhaust and not contributing any sort of content either). Now, thats not saying anyone is not entitled to their opinion either, but whats been posted here isn't about opinions. I'd take knowledge over brainless idiocy any day.
Click to expand...

Interesting take. Help me understand what makes one an idiot when taking a company to task on questionable and seemingly unproven claims?
 

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