AR Inconel Install

Phil said:

useful might be, but also solution oriented?

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Am I wrong in thinking the solutions on this thread can only come from one place..AR?

ttkarp said:

Am I wrong in thinking the solutions on this thread can only come from one place..AR?

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Or Waf proving one with his other tuner. But AR should be able to make this all go away, or issue the disclaimer I suggested.

Its time for a "do over".

I'm not for or against AR but I did appreciate his test results which informed us that the Termi slips performed better without the upmap (late last year). His testing also revealed that the Full Termi has some "issues" . If i remember correctly, Rich just posted his testing results. Many were looking for ways to tune to take advantage of exhaust options or to simply improve(power commander etc) on the standard tuning provided in the stock ecu.

I value Rich's input especially, he helped us with the linkage setting, initial deficiencies with the upmaps when run with slipons and Full termis.

Had rich been disingenuous would he be telling us we would get better performance with the slipons when using the stock map vs upmap? This information as well as seeing the power and torque curves he posted would help me decide to stick with slipons.


Ducati even provided new maps to increase the performance which may have narrowed the performance gap exposed last year.

I don't recall Rich ever badmouthing Termi, just stated his test results.

In reviewing the past posts it seems there are AR fans that talk bad about Termi as possibly this has unfairly reflected onto Rich.

There are also some here who lack decency and decorum and a few have been negative from the beginning on both sides.

Check out the following:

AR Fan:
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Stw
So far this is all talk... Maybe that's why??? I must admit AR talk a great game but so far..no product and considering how long they have been posting about this on here I really do feel there's a certain level of BS going on here....

STW,

You really seem to stir up trouble don't you? AR makes some great products. Specifically I ran across them with their exhaust for the S1000RR.

Geez dude, get a life...
"

"Quote:
Originally Posted by bradp51
I must be slow. Why do we need the mods ? Whats wrong with this thread apart from a few impatient people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lardawge
You all sound like a bunch of whiny three year olds. Stfu please and stop hijacking this thread with silliness.
That's sort of what is wrong.

Those guys were getting a little carried away with their opinions, but you cannot tell another member to shut up and leave the thread and be rude about it.
"

AR Posted:
"What I'm saying is that at 6-7k fully open without insert baffling it out performs any other system including the akra. With inserts to bring db levels down we start to lose torque just at that point in the rev range.
We are confident we have a mod to give us back that torque between 6-7k without sacrificing the massive gains seen lower than and above that point in the rev range.

Please note that the dip at 6-7k is still better power than the stock system with the added bonus of from that point up on stock fuelling we are averaging plus 10bhp. Do you see that with any other systems with up maps or without up maps!"

sifubs said:

Its time for a "do over".

AR Posted:
"What I'm saying is that at 6-7k fully open without insert baffling it out performs any other system including the akra.

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I hope posting this gave you some solace, because it will have zero affect on this thread/posters. I forgot about that quote Rich made about Akra. The product isn't even out yet, and he says his is better. Very bad form.

sifubs, Can you please explain why you are choosing to drag me into a thread I have nothing to do with? I have refrained from having an opinion in an attempt to not stir the sh** pot and now this!? There are more than a hundred example in this thread alone you could have used.

WAfatboy said:

I started the thread to share my experience of the product honestly and in detail after requests from other forum members to do just that.

So in a way its not really for me to say but I would have found it useful before I bought because there really was no independent data available.

Perhaps I would have still bought it, or maybe not but I would have been a lot more pragmatic about the purchase.

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Well there we have it... encapsulated in one response....This is why this thread is here and why its proven invaluable... Thx Waf

I asked you Rich several SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (even in numerical order) at the relative beginning of this thread; in fact, I asked these questions 3 times across 3 posts. Not one was answered.

Rich22 said:

ttKarp

Exactly the kind of response i am talking about!!!

What is up with you?

I just said i will start a thread and answer questions on any subject.

If you want us to depart from this forum then carry on as you are.

You just don't read the posts thoroughly before you post ridiculous comments like
"If I were representing the company, I might even attempt to address the other claims of heat issues, and the RB unit issues that have arisen here. But...sadly, we know that won't happen either"

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anthem said:

Doesnt really matter. What I was pointing out was the variances in treatment between certain vendors vs others when you said vendors were held to a different standard. You have one exhaust manufacturer who made some claims that you are finding a bit difficult to reach. You have another vendor selling air filters claiming a 6hp increase but not getting any grief over it. Not here nor there.

My question to you WAf - would you rather have him on the forum or off ? There is nothing wrong with people posting, woudn't buy it, doesn't perform to claims, etc - but having Rich, Tuneboy, and even better others - is of benefit to the community. WOuld love someone from Akra, Zard, Termi, Ducati, Rizoma, etc, etc onboard as well. The point was that the community is better when more knowledge is present - regardless of commercial undertones or not. Not saying one should not address commercial claims or performance - just that taken within the context that its beneficial to have them onboard and available to all rather than withdrawn and not.

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Maybe I'm the wrong person to ask, I've had far more useful information from independent forum members than I've had from manufacturers. If they make a positive contribution then great, if they disagree with what we say that's tough. The rules of the game have changed. The consumer has far more power than they ever have done through the free and unfettered exchange of views and information.

Once upon a time we would have seen a glossy ad in a bike mag and bought just on the strengths of the claims and never have been any the wiser. Advertisers were rarely held to account for their claims and the consumer suffered. Now we can call out a brand for under-delivering. Some brands haven't quite adjusted to this more egalitarian approach and it irks them. The brands that choose to engage positively even when things aren't going their way will be the real winners.

We don't need them, they need us.

WAfatboy said:

Maybe I'm the wrong person to ask, I've had far more useful information from independent forum members than I've had from manufacturers. If they make a positive contribution then great, if they disagree with what we say that's tough. The rules of the game have changed. The consumer has far more power than they ever have done through the free and unfettered exchange of views and information.

Once upon a time we would have seen a glossy ad in a bike mag and bought just on the strengths of the claims and never have been any the wiser. Advertisers were rarely held to account for their claims and the consumer suffered. Now we can call out a brand for under-delivering. Some brands haven't quite adjusted to this more egalitarian approach and it irks them. The brands that choose to engage positively even when things aren't going their way will be the real winners.

We don't need them, they need us.

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Your merging two different things together. I was asking about whether it was better to have manufacturers/reps/engineers on the board sharing and accessible. You're talking about accountability and marketplace dynamics.

And in all honestly - what other exhaust manufacturer has participated at all here ? Termi - none. Akra - none. Zard - none. Comp Werkes - none.

I'm sure if you don't want AR around at all - then hey at least you're a customer of Austin Racing and have more carrying weight than just about everybody else so far. Then I think he may have it right and he's not going to stay around all that much.

Too bad, because I think thats for the worse for the rest of us.

anthem said:

Your merging two different things together. I was asking about whether it was better to have manufacturers/reps/engineers on the board sharing and accessible. You're talking about accountability and marketplace dynamics.

And in all honestly - what other exhaust manufacturer has participated at all here ? Termi - none. Akra - none. Zard - none. Comp Werkes - none.

I'm sure if you don't want AR around at all - then hey at least you're a customer of Austin Racing and have more carrying weight than just about everybody else so far. Then I think he may have it right and he's not going to stay around all that much.

Too bad, because I think thats for the worse for the rest of us.

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Anthem

All I can say to that is based on Rich's responses I don't think he would be missed..

anthem said:

Your merging two different things together. I was asking about whether it was better to have manufacturers/reps/engineers on the board sharing and accessible. You're talking about accountability and marketplace dynamics.

And in all honestly - what other exhaust manufacturer has participated at all here ? Termi - none. Akra - none. Zard - none. Comp Werkes - none.

I'm sure if you don't want AR around at all - then hey at least you're a customer of Austin Racing and have more carrying weight than just about everybody else so far. Then I think he may have it right and he's not going to stay around all that much.

Too bad, because I think thats for the worse for the rest of us.

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I'm undecided if its better to have a vendor who is inaccurate with claims, or one that is absent.

anthem said:

Your merging two different things together. I was asking about whether it was better to have manufacturers/reps/engineers on the board sharing and accessible. You're talking about accountability and marketplace dynamics.

And in all honestly - what other exhaust manufacturer has participated at all here ? Termi - none. Akra - none. Zard - none. Comp Werkes - none.

I'm sure if you don't want AR around at all - then hey at least you're a customer of Austin Racing and have more carrying weight than just about everybody else so far. Then I think he may have it right and he's not going to stay around all that much.

Too bad, because I think thats for the worse for the rest of us.

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Please don't twist my words to suit your purposes. My comments refer to ANY manufacturer or retailer. I have kept this thread factual and my feedback balanced despite the circumstances. I have spent my hard earned cash to buy a product so you're damn right I get to have an opinion.

VAST said:

I asked you Rich several SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (even in numerical order) at the relative beginning of this thread; in fact, I asked these questions 3 times across 3 posts. Not one was answered.

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Rich only answers questions in a different thread...duh

Stw said:

Anthem

All I can say to that is based on Rich's responses I don't think he would be missed..

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ttkarp said:

I'm undecided if its better to have a vendor who is inaccurate with claims, or one that is absent.

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WAfatboy said:

Please don't twist my words to suit your purposes. My comments refer to ANY manufacturer or retailer. I have kept this thread factual and my feedback balanced despite the circumstances. I have spent my hard earned cash to buy a product so you're damn right I get to have an opinion.

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I'm not trying to twist your words - I just asked a question. No more, no less.

What I was getting at was that I think its a loss. You're talking about someone who probably knows more than the majority of people here. Whether he's commercial or not is not that relevant to me. I can read between the lines. At least he's here sharing information and not just selling stuff.

I would argue every vendor exaggerates claims. Some more than others. Some are completely useless. I'm not sure the AR one is - it is different sound, lighter in weight and does give /some/ increase albeit maybe not as much as claimed.

He doesn't have to be here. And its wildly apparent now why. I don't see Termignoni on here, or Ducati, or the rest. And hey - Termi has a bigger performance justification to make since their exhaust was actually WORSE that we found out (before the upmap, and ironically AR was the one who revealed it). But you know what - if AR isn't here, similar people would buy the exhaust, you get the same end result. Maybe a few won't know, maybe some will. But it would just fall on deaf ears.

But to my original reasoning. I don't care if the sticker manufacturer of DP tank pads comes on (and his product has some issues with peeling, etc.) as a vendor contributor. But if he contributes something into the adhesion of products onto Ducati paint or whatever is something that might be useful to somebody at some point. .

Whatever it is - I want more people who know more than the collective to contribute and be a part - whether right, wrong or indifferent. The "collective" doesn't need more people who know less - otherwise we're constantly talking about the same heat, the seat, etc, etc.

Ok, I believe I've asked a perfectly fair question on the new thread.

Anthem - no one told Rich to leave, and never implied he should. Maybe the comments forced him out (he keeps coming back though), but he threw out some zingers as well. He should (and was) holding himself to a higher standard then typical forum members. As for the other vendors, it isn't worth it to them to come here, typically the big vendors NEVER go to these little private forums, because of what happened here, and having time. We are an itsybitsy nitch of the big boys markets, so we mean nothing. Most have there own forums anyway, where they have some control, and can cver all their products. On another note, I don't think we had mch affect on it's design, basically a stainless/Inconel straight pipe following the path of the OEM. Of course to market sooner than Akra.

ttkarp said:

Rich only answers questions in a different thread...duh

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Or not...

i nominate this thread officially the "will be the first with 1000 thanks" - thread

Phil said:

i nominate this thread officially the "will be the first with 1000 thanks" - thread

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1002 - Phil, you HAVE to go to other thread for the twit/.... post

less forum... more riding.