AR Inconel Install

Ducati Forum

Help Support Ducati Forum:

WAfatboy said:
Their knowledge, along with any other commercial entity that chooses to engage, has to be taken in the context of their desire to sell product, they are not good samaritans. Equally you can't on one hand take a stance as a valuable contributor but then shrug off repeated product claims as 'buyer beware' as you seem to suggest above. Also as a community we should not threaten each other, that crosses a line that no amount of knowledge can justify. No special treatment.
Click to expand...

Does it for commercial entities ? You have someone else selling an air filter that claims to gain 6hp for 1/20th the price you've spent on your exhaust. If you wanted hp gains (or performance increase), why hasn't EVERYONE jumped on that bandwagon ?

I'm not asking for buyer beware or special treatment. I know vendors are on here with some sort of commercial benefit in the back of their mind. But I do think that having them on here is better than not having them on here (or available). You can address and opine for whatever you want, but what transpired here wasn't what I call addressing issues and opining (they were for you but not many others).

For what its worth - I agree on the threats. Slander/Libel notwithstanding.
 
anthem said:
Does it for commercial entities ? You have someone else selling an air filter that claims to gain 6hp for 1/20th the price you've spent on your exhaust. If you wanted hp gains (or performance increase), why hasn't EVERYONE jumped on that bandwagon ?

I'm not asking for buyer beware or special treatment. I know vendors are on here with some sort of commercial benefit in the back of their mind. But I do think that having them on here is better than not having them on here (or available). You can address and opine for whatever you want, but what transpired here wasn't what I call addressing issues and opining (they were for you but not many others).

For what its worth - I agree on the threats. Slander/Libel notwithstanding.
Click to expand...

I am surprised about the lack of attacks on the filter. It has even been posted on this very forum that it changed nothing, all over the internet, very little if any improvement as well. There, I slammed it. :)
 
Last edited:
anthem said:
Does it for commercial entities ? You have someone else selling an air filter that claims to gain 6hp for 1/20th the price you've spent on your exhaust. If you wanted hp gains (or performance increase), why hasn't EVERYONE jumped on that bandwagon ?

I'm not asking for buyer beware or special treatment. I know vendors are on here with some sort of commercial benefit in the back of their mind. But I do think that having them on here is better than not having them on here (or available). You can address and opine for whatever you want, but what transpired here wasn't what I call addressing issues and opining (they were for you but not many others).

For what its worth - I agree on the threats. Slander/Libel notwithstanding.
Click to expand...

What do you think the point of this is/was then?

What threats?
 
anthem said:
Does it for commercial entities ? You have someone else selling an air filter that claims to gain 6hp for 1/20th the price you've spent on your exhaust. If you wanted hp gains (or performance increase), why hasn't EVERYONE jumped on that bandwagon ?

I'm not asking for buyer beware or special treatment. I know vendors are on here with some sort of commercial benefit in the back of their mind. But I do think that having them on here is better than not having them on here (or available). You can address and opine for whatever you want, but what transpired here wasn't what I call addressing issues and opining (they were for you but not many others).

For what its worth - I agree on the threats. Slander/Libel notwithstanding.
Click to expand...

Sorry what's this air filter guy proving?
 
Rich22 said:
Trauma

Was not going to post again in this thread but in answer to your questions.

you seem like a level headed kind of guy with a strong and some times controversial opinion.

Do you honestly think we would or even could falsify dyno results! no. What would the point be? AR has a great and honest reputation, why would we jeopardise that!

What amazes me is that a few amongst you are conveniently blind to other dyno results such as Copiya's that substantiate our results. Why some choose to ignore these seems to me to just show the fact they have got it in for AR and what ever i say falls on deaf ears.

We will post up a batch of results from other bikes in a new thread but again I'm sure some will simply say we falsified them.

To clarify we never once slated another manufacturer we simply showed you our like for like test results, if any think otherwise then you are simply wrong and need to read all the threads and posts to make it clear to you.

Regarding legal implications of some posts, why should a member get away with posting utter lies and attempting to blacken the name of AR? the fact is it is wrong and as such we will do everything within our power to protect our good name.

Again, thankyou for all the PM support from all the level headed members that DO, read the threads and posts from start to finish so they have the correct informed facts.
Click to expand...

anthem said:
Here is my opinion - I want guys like Rich and Tuneboy, and others in here. I would prefer more engineers, developers, etc in the forum. So I really don't understand why a few idiots are trying to drive them out. No matter if you want the exhaust (or anything else) from him/them - the more people who know deeply about a product, the better. You guys are taking him to task because certain performance characteristics haven't been met. I don't see anyone taking Ducati to task because they haven't hit the 195hp DIN or SAE that Ducati claim or that sometimes Termi slips outperform the full either. . .

But thats not the point. The goal is to have more knowledge on here. And whether that knowledge is from an engineer at Ducati, a product developer at Austin, or even a technician at Honda - it doesn't matter. You guys treat people selling farkles who know nothing about the engineering underneath and yet give someone who is trying to do the right thing and provide information this much grief ?

Look the reality with most exhausts is that you might gain some performance from a decent tune. The jumps aren't going to be huge and there are huge variances between bikes, countries, dyno's, etc. The termi's aren't a bad exhaust for a reason - and any improvements are going to be incremental. We all pretty much know this. While I understand that some may be disappointed in whatever those results might be, the reality is that you really wanted those gains, but probably also fully knew that it probably wasn't going to be that large. If you want to believe marketing, you can drop an air filter in and get 7hp gain just like that.. . . c'mon.

Disclaimer: I have zero interest in Rich's exhaust - before or after these results. I do have an interest in having him and his knowledge stay in this forum as he's contributed a helluva lot more in content than quite a few others here who have no real business here (not interested in buying the exhaust and not contributing any sort of content either). Now, thats not saying anyone is not entitled to their opinion either, but whats been posted here isn't about opinions. I'd take knowledge over brainless idiocy any day.
Click to expand...

I have been around very fast cars, boats, and motorcycles for very many years (like 40 years!). Even long before the internet, I had experience with "tuners" and aftermarket engine builders. In 1984 I put an aftermarket turbo on an RX-7 Mazda for instance. The reality is that the industry is full of small businesses that are the industries own worst enemies.

I have seen it all - and I don't think that is an exaggeration. There is a very well known car-based "tuner" still in business today that the car magazines continue to support who has done things that are unimaginable. When I say he is a crook, that is not really an exaggeration. My knowledge of him is pretty good and it amazes me how he gets away with things he does. That is just an example. It is amazing how many tuners make claims that never seem to hold up. It's not to say they don't offer improvements, but their moral compass always seem to be a few degrees off when making claims of increased performance.

The point is that Rich and his business may well be one of the good ones - I don't claim to know. But when they make a claim that does not seem to be met, they are likely receiving the wrath of the reputation of the industry in general. I think many of us are skeptical and it puts an increased burden of proof on the industry.

I do agree it's good to have them on here, but it's up to them, not us, to prove they are worthy. That is not a knock, just the reality of how some of us feel.
 
WAfatboy said:
Sorry what's this air filter guy proving?
Click to expand...

Doesnt really matter. What I was pointing out was the variances in treatment between certain vendors vs others when you said vendors were held to a different standard. You have one exhaust manufacturer who made some claims that you are finding a bit difficult to reach. You have another vendor selling air filters claiming a 6hp increase but not getting any grief over it. Not here nor there.

My question to you WAf - would you rather have him on the forum or off ? There is nothing wrong with people posting, woudn't buy it, doesn't perform to claims, etc - but having Rich, Tuneboy, and even better others - is of benefit to the community. WOuld love someone from Akra, Zard, Termi, Ducati, Rizoma, etc, etc onboard as well. The point was that the community is better when more knowledge is present - regardless of commercial undertones or not. Not saying one should not address commercial claims or performance - just that taken within the context that its beneficial to have them onboard and available to all rather than withdrawn and not.
 
Some people have questioned the point of this thread..

Here's my take..

Any thread on here is there to increase the knowledge base of the 1199 community through the sharing of ideas ,experiences and the conjoined desire to enjoy our bikes to the full.
If this is indeed the point of a thread then this particular one has been spectacular to me... I have learned so much here that I can only hope that other threads even come close to its usefulness....

Waf... A question... To me you kinda own this thread as you began it... so... Do you feel its been useful??
 
Stw said:
Any thread on here is there to increase the knowledge base of the 1199 community through the sharing of ideas ,experiences and the conjoined desire to enjoy our bikes to the full.
If this is indeed the point of a thread then this particular one has been spectacular to me... I have learned so much here that I can only hope that other threads even come close to its usefulness....
Click to expand...

useful might be, but also solution oriented?
 
Stw said:
Some people have questioned the point of this thread..

Here's my take..

Any thread on here is there to increase the knowledge base of the 1199 community through the sharing of ideas ,experiences and the conjoined desire to enjoy our bikes to the full.
If this is indeed the point of a thread then this particular one has been spectacular to me... I have learned so much here that I can only hope that other threads even come close to its usefulness....

Waf... A question... To me you kinda own this thread as you began it... so... Do you feel its been useful??
Click to expand...

I started the thread to share my experience of the product honestly and in detail after requests from other forum members to do just that.

So in a way its not really for me to say but I would have found it useful before I bought because there really was no independent data available.

Perhaps I would have still bought it, or maybe not but I would have been a lot more pragmatic about the purchase.
 
So can any other 1199 AR system owners other than Thewoot and Copiya please PM me.

Thanks
 
Its time for a "do over":).

I'm not for or against AR but I did appreciate his test results which informed us that the Termi slips performed better without the upmap (late last year). His testing also revealed that the Full Termi has some "issues" . If i remember correctly, Rich just posted his testing results. Many were looking for ways to tune to take advantage of exhaust options or to simply improve(power commander etc) on the standard tuning provided in the stock ecu.

I value Rich's input especially, he helped us with the linkage setting, initial deficiencies with the upmaps when run with slipons and Full termis.

Had rich been disingenuous would he be telling us we would get better performance with the slipons when using the stock map vs upmap? This information as well as seeing the power and torque curves he posted would help me decide to stick with slipons.


Ducati even provided new maps to increase the performance which may have narrowed the performance gap exposed last year.

I don't recall Rich ever badmouthing Termi, just stated his test results.

In reviewing the past posts it seems there are AR fans that talk bad about Termi as possibly this has unfairly reflected onto Rich.

There are also some here who lack decency and decorum and a few have been negative from the beginning on both sides.

Check out the following:

AR Fan:
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Stw
So far this is all talk... Maybe that's why??? I must admit AR talk a great game but so far..no product and considering how long they have been posting about this on here I really do feel there's a certain level of BS going on here....

STW,

You really seem to stir up trouble don't you? AR makes some great products. Specifically I ran across them with their exhaust for the S1000RR.

Geez dude, get a life...
"

"Quote:
Originally Posted by bradp51
I must be slow. Why do we need the mods ? Whats wrong with this thread apart from a few impatient people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lardawge
You all sound like a bunch of whiny three year olds. Stfu please and stop hijacking this thread with silliness.
That's sort of what is wrong.

Those guys were getting a little carried away with their opinions, but you cannot tell another member to shut up and leave the thread and be rude about it.
"

AR Posted:
"What I'm saying is that at 6-7k fully open without insert baffling it out performs any other system including the akra. With inserts to bring db levels down we start to lose torque just at that point in the rev range.
We are confident we have a mod to give us back that torque between 6-7k without sacrificing the massive gains seen lower than and above that point in the rev range.

Please note that the dip at 6-7k is still better power than the stock system with the added bonus of from that point up on stock fuelling we are averaging plus 10bhp. Do you see that with any other systems with up maps or without up maps!"
 
Last edited:
sifubs said:
Its time for a "do over":).

AR Posted:
"What I'm saying is that at 6-7k fully open without insert baffling it out performs any other system including the akra.
Click to expand...

I hope posting this gave you some solace, because it will have zero affect on this thread/posters. I forgot about that quote Rich made about Akra. The product isn't even out yet, and he says his is better. Very bad form.
 
sifubs, Can you please explain why you are choosing to drag me into a thread I have nothing to do with? I have refrained from having an opinion in an attempt to not stir the sh** pot and now this!? There are more than a hundred example in this thread alone you could have used.
 
WAfatboy said:
I started the thread to share my experience of the product honestly and in detail after requests from other forum members to do just that.

So in a way its not really for me to say but I would have found it useful before I bought because there really was no independent data available.

Perhaps I would have still bought it, or maybe not but I would have been a lot more pragmatic about the purchase.
Click to expand...

Well there we have it... encapsulated in one response....This is why this thread is here and why its proven invaluable... Thx Waf
 
I asked you Rich several SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (even in numerical order) at the relative beginning of this thread; in fact, I asked these questions 3 times across 3 posts. Not one was answered.

Rich22 said:
ttKarp

Exactly the kind of response i am talking about!!!

What is up with you?

I just said i will start a thread and answer questions on any subject.

If you want us to depart from this forum then carry on as you are.

You just don't read the posts thoroughly before you post ridiculous comments like
"If I were representing the company, I might even attempt to address the other claims of heat issues, and the RB unit issues that have arisen here. But...sadly, we know that won't happen either"
Click to expand...
 

Similar threads

Thadius
For Sale 2020 V4S F/S Colorado
Replies
5
Views
476
Thadius
Thadius
D
Help! 1299 doesn’t make power above 9500rpm
Replies
9
Views
701
Dark
D
M
A little shoutout to Ducati Omaha Parts Department
Replies
11
Views
575
BP PanigaleV4S
BP PanigaleV4S
Sheikh
Inexpensive power/rideability upgrade
Replies
17
Views
2K
Sheikh
Sheikh
A
Grey/Graphite colour material discovered oil change 1500miles (2500km)
Replies
11
Views
288
baggerman
baggerman

Register CTA

Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.

Recent Discussions

Back
Top