AR Inconel Install

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Gavin D and friends,

You keep talking about these claims that are false because of results that have come forward... please read carefully... THE CLAIMS WERE MADE BEFORE TERMI RELEASED A NEW MAP.

Should AR recheck there claims against the new map? Yes. But in no way does that make the claims false.

You and others keep posting as if you are doing everyone here a favor by being the product police. It's childish and comes across as a personal vendetta against Rich and AR. If you have a beef with AR, maybe take it offline where it can actually get resolved.

I personally don't care if it claims 300hp increase, it isn't the reason I would buy the exhaust. I suspect that to be the case with most. Nobody I know rides there bikes full out even 1% of the time. This makes the argument ridiculous.

I also don't believe you or any one of your forum bully friends ever planned on purchasing the exhaust to begin with... which makes your attacks seem more personal against Rich and his company. Pretty sure that is why he snapped. I would have done the same in his shoes.

Round up your posse and get the torches.
 
Gavin D said:
Anthem

You have quoted twice the problem that started this debate. That AR made you aware that Termi and Ducati were selling a $3500 performance up grade that was producing less performance than the standard system.

Thats a big claim and a false claim.

Buyer beware is not telling anyone not to buy this AR product but simply a warning to investigate your choices.

This became personal when Rich labelled members as trolls and requested some be banned for asking the following question.

How do you get the performance gain when your system is the same diameter as the standard system?

Instead of a simple answer that could have been ........ but sounded right like, we have a few subtle changes in radius of bends or length of pipe or a different baffle design.

Rich bit back with your a troll and I will not release our secrets.

Defensive and offensive. Poke me with a stick and you get a reaction.

Not once have I said anything negative about AR or the system, just asked questions that don't get answered. I too wanted the system to be a success as I love to have hot up options for my toys, I'm a sales persons wet dream in that sense.

When someone then threatens to have you removed from the forum and starts ranting about suing you it's hard not respond and emphasise their tom foolery.

The fanboys here will never change their mind as they entered the debate with their minds made up. But hell guys crying that we (trolls) are pushing an individual off the forum is as big a joke as the outlandish claims against Termi/Ducati.

Rich cries I will leave if you don't stop asking questions. Well so be it, If he wants to go then go.

The other manufacturers that Anthem mentioned as not being on the forum don't need the forum as a place to advertise unlike AR and the smaller outlets like Bellisimo.

You don't see Bellisimo running down another shop or a product that they don't sell or they too would be questioned about their claims.

Hell we all know that Gunny is not my best friend but with his air filter push he at no time says the standard filter reduces the performance or that the other after market filter reduces the performance. Just a simple claim and a price.

I am sure if I asked Gunny a question like how does it work, he would not say oh! that's secret you troll. He would say it allows more air through while still protecting the internals from debris! or words to that effect.

Be sceptical of all claims people it's healthy to do so. What has an individual to gain from their claims. Caveat emptor - buyer beware!
Click to expand...

Lardawge

Just incase you didn't read before you wrote. Read the quote. No posse but the Fanboy posse round these parts, Partner!!
 
lardawge said:
Gavin D and friends,

You keep talking about these claims that are false because of results that have come forward... please read carefully... THE CLAIMS WERE MADE BEFORE TERMI RELEASED A NEW MAP.

Should AR recheck there claims against the new map? Yes. But in no way does that make the claims false.

You and others keep posting as if you are doing everyone here a favor by being the product police. It's childish and comes across as a personal vendetta against Rich and AR. If you have a beef with AR, maybe take it offline where it can actually get resolved.

I personally don't care if it claims 300hp increase, it isn't the reason I would buy the exhaust. I suspect that to be the case with most. Nobody I know rides there bikes full out even 1% of the time. This makes the argument ridiculous.

I also don't believe you or any one of your forum bully friends ever planned on purchasing the exhaust to begin with... which makes your attacks seem more personal against Rich and his company. Pretty sure that is why he snapped. I would have done the same in his shoes.

Round up your posse and get the torches.
Click to expand...

I'm in complete agreement that the numbers were gathered before the up maps were corrected. Does that then make the claims obsolete? If yes, then don't f-ing make them anymore. Or, if there is new data, SHARE IT...which is what I've personally been asking for. I honestly don't see how that can be perceived as an attack? Please, enlighten me.

Oh, and if it doesn't run cooler, eliminating the need for a heat shield, then don't say it does. Pretty simple. Again, this is an AR problem. You guys can blame me for asking the questions, but that wont fix any of the problems here.
 
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"The AR system adds a massive 10-15BHP low and mid in places over the termi full system and peaks at plus 5bhp as the graph shows. "

I found this quote from Rich on March 2nd 2013 on this very forum...

Seems a pretty unequivocal no caveat claim.....

The new Ducati map became available in Nov '12 if memory serves..so as a prospective buyer it wouldn't seem unreasonable to assume he was comparing the AR system to the Termi w/current map?? No??

So Rich.. does this claim still apply or not... Simple question... or should I use the "other" thread to expect an answer???
 
lardawge said:
Exactly. Thats clearly how you deal with life which is why you have zero credibility. At least you are a superhero amongst your five forum friends. Good on you.
Click to expand...

Dude... No heroes here.. Ask The Woot and/or Waf how they feel about their purchase right now??? AR took the moral high ground vs Termi.. now all we asking is why are these 2 guys not seeing the numbers claimed by Rich?? As one who is being "sued":rolleyes: by AR I asking them to clarify the discrepancies....
 
Stw said:
Dude... No heroes here.. Ask The Woot and/or Waf how they feel about their purchase right now??? AR took the moral high ground vs Termi.. now all we asking is why are these 2 guys not seeing the numbers claimed by Rich?? As one who is being "sued":rolleyes: by AR I asking them to clarify the discrepancies....
Click to expand...
Must have missed it. Did the Woot dyno his bike?
 
lardawge said:
It still doesn't answer the question about why you clowns take it so personal that you have to post pages and pages of nonsense on behalf of all us defenseless consumers.
Click to expand...

Nah, I wouldn't say your defenseless. Gullible perhaps. But not defenseless.

I'm going to respectfully bow out of this thread now (insert your cheering here:D). This shouldn't be, and hasn't been personal towards anyone to this point for me. Now, I'm starting to be bothered by some of the shots, and it's turned into a flat out pissing match with everyone wanting to be right.

I may never understand why you guys mindlessly accept Rich's word on things because he's "nice" and spent a lot of time on this product. When it comes to this sole issue, I really couldn't care less about Rich's personality (nice or not) or how reputable the company has been until now, nor do I think anyone should. All companies spend a lot of time on their products, so I don't see how AR is any different there. My only "cause" throughout this was to get a hint of honesty from AR that they really can't and shouldn't make superiority claims, and shouldn't bash competitors. Those of you who don't think there has been any bashing, I invite you to read through the other (original) AR exhaust thread. And the fact that there is a claim that the AR product is superior to the not yet released Akra product should be an indicator of some kind I would think. But, if you guys are ok with either issue, then so be it.

I guess I'm the tough consumer out there that is skeptical of claims based on questionable data, or outright "miscommunications" like the heat issue:rolleyes: Anyway, this has been an informative and fun thread in my opinion. I apologize if I've personally offended anyone through my persistence, but not for trying to get answers to important questions (my opinion obviously). I've tried to be careful not to take shots at anyone individually. I don't anticipate Rich will answer my comparison questions here because I suspect there is no answer. And an honest "we don't have that data" or something to that effect doesn't seem to be in his vocabulary. However, I'll be watching to see how it turns out for WAF.
 
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Stw said:
Haha.. good point..My bad.. No he didn't ..but it appears he isn't happy..But you got me...:)
Click to expand...

This is not about getting anyone.
I just wanna see how this is gonna play out for WAf.

I'd be more upset with the Woots mechanic for not pulling the exhaust, and contacting AR about how it fit. We have no idea if it is due to manufacturing error, or just a variance in the build of the Panis.... But the last chance to catch this before it causes issues for the client is the person who installs it.
 
man.......I just want to see some numbers.....this thread is worse than a reality show mixed with the jerry springer show
 
Gavin D said:
Anthem

You have quoted twice the problem that started this debate. That AR made you aware that Termi and Ducati were selling a $3500 performance up grade that was producing less performance than the standard system.

Thats a big claim and a false claim.
Click to expand...

It wasn't a false claim when it was made. Now, whether you need to update the information so that your claims aren't as "good" as they were - well, you probably should - but in reality, most people aren't until its like defacto. I'd argue there are significantly more pre-updated panigales out there than there are post-map updated ones. . .

Hey I didn't see 195 at the dyno when the 1199 first came out either. Did we jump all over Ducati over this ? Hell, they had previous production bikes that made more power than the panigale until they got things straightened out.

Hey just because he didn't disclaimer all his claims like the big boys do - its not complete hog wash. There is/was some improvement. Just nowhere near whats claimed. Just like Duc's didn't get 195 on the dyno when they first came out either...

What I was getting at - I prefer people who have more knowledge than the collective to still be part of the collective. Thats what keeps people here. And people - no mater if they are part of a company or individual - are still people. He's not hiding behind a public relations, advertising or marketing person. It's pure unfettered AR. Just like if Claude Domenicali ever came on, I'd want pure unfettered claude, unedited.

And I have zero interest in his exhaust. Like ZERO. Never even considered it. But I do think its more a witch hunt to discredit/embarrass/witch hunt someone as far as possible to see if they can feel superior about "warning people" about a product. Give me a break - they have other products that might be of use, as well as this exhaust. It's a good resource to have on here - period.
 
anthem said:
And I have zero interest in his exhaust. Like ZERO. Never even considered it.
Click to expand...

Exactly why you shouldn't be on this thread, and at the very least, you should be talking to the exhaust, instead of at the posters. I keep telling everyone, this is a "Panigale" forum, not an "owner of Panigale" forum. If everyone would talk to the bike/products, and not at people, there would not be these crazy threads. No matter what someone says, like "I think that about a product", argue back "I think this about the product" instead of, "I think your a ___ for thinking that about the product". This very simple rule wiill keep things smooth, even Duc agrees, and it's his forum.
 
Trauma said:
Exactly why you shouldn't be on this thread, and at the very least, you should be talking to the exhaust, instead of at the posters. I keep telling everyone, this is a "Panigale" forum, not an "owner of Panigale" forum. If everyone would talk to the bike/products, and not at people, there would not be these crazy threads. No matter what someone says, like "I think that about a product", argue back "I think this about the product" instead of, "I think your a ___ for thinking that about the product". This very simple rule wiill keep things smooth, even Duc agrees, and it's his forum.
Click to expand...
Think that rule was being followed up until about post 53...
That's when it all went awry...

Now I can only wait patiently for the results and decent road review from WAf. The exhaust has form and fit, but the function is still a bit murky.
 
Hey guys whilst I wait for the third (and hopefully final) instalment of this saga I'm not crying in a corner but rather enjoying the beauty of Bali. Have to say I've found the negative attacks on this forum quite depressing as various people try to prove their respective points.

I'm now definitely booked in for 6th May with a session at Bunbury Dyno so why don't we park it until then. I will start a new thread with the charts and narrative from each part of the process in that thread so we can have a clean 1-2-3 step supported by the data.

I've picked up some valuable information in this process talking to the various tuners (and a couple of the less well known forum members that have contributed to this thread) and I will include their observations when we get to the end rather than fuelling more fires now when we don't have any new data.

I am convinced we have a good team of enthusiasts with great experience of extracting maximum power from street, race and drag bikes through tuning and building and if anyone can find the missing power they can. Wayne at Tuneboy continues to be an absolute trooper constantly looking for improvements and has actually been the best support throughout this entire process.

If anyone has new data or dyno charts then that's really all we want to see posted at this stage.

Thanks
 

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