AR Inconel Install

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Gavin D said:
I challenge any Fanboy to go back through the posts and find anything wrong with the questions I have asked of Rich22........]
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WOW! So i guess anyone that doesn't share your point of view is labeled a "fanboy"? Lol You guys are amazing. :rolleyes:
 
anthem said:
It wasn't a false claim when it was made. Now, whether you need to update the information so that your claims aren't as "good" as they were - well, you probably should - but in reality, most people aren't until its like defacto. I'd argue there are significantly more pre-updated panigales out there than there are post-map updated ones. . .

Hey I didn't see 195 at the dyno when the 1199 first came out either. Did we jump all over Ducati over this ? Hell, they had previous production bikes that made more power than the panigale until they got things straightened out.

Hey just because he didn't disclaimer all his claims like the big boys do - its not complete hog wash. There is/was some improvement. Just nowhere near whats claimed. Just like Duc's didn't get 195 on the dyno when they first came out either...

What I was getting at - I prefer people who have more knowledge than the collective to still be part of the collective. Thats what keeps people here. And people - no mater if they are part of a company or individual - are still people. He's not hiding behind a public relations, advertising or marketing person. It's pure unfettered AR. Just like if Claude Domenicali ever came on, I'd want pure unfettered claude, unedited.

And I have zero interest in his exhaust. Like ZERO. Never even considered it. But I do think its more a witch hunt to discredit/embarrass/witch hunt someone as far as possible to see if they can feel superior about "warning people" about a product. Give me a break - they have other products that might be of use, as well as this exhaust. It's a good resource to have on here - period.
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We bitched like hell about Ducati!!!
 
WAfatboy said:
We bitched like hell about Ducati!!!
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Yeah that's the thing i don't get.
IMO, it was like going off half cocked before the target was clearly identified.

I personally had faith that DUCATI would see that things would largely be taken care of, and i believe this has pretty much come to pass with the updated maps, sprocket options and heat shields. IMO historically the Termi slips have largely always been a cost effective alternative, even though they're not perfect.

If DUCATI's effort is not good enough for the end user, then there will always be options available through the aftermarket suppliers. At a very nice premium i might add:)
 
Yes it's starting to dawn on me that I would probably have been better off buying the Termi headers to go with my Slips and then getting Justin/Wayne to tune. All the negativity around the full system on release was never really counteracted by positive coverage of the systems performance with the new map and I'd not seen a dyno chart until the last couple of weeks. Anyway what's another $1900 between me and my Ducati dealer! I'll wait until after the dyno session on 6th May and then make a call but I'm already reconciling myself to this as a potential end result.
 
Gavin D said:
Notec

Termignoni have never advised of any performance upgrade other than a 2kg weight saving for the slip on cans.
Why would they if they knew the slips outperformed the standard full system through the majority of the powerband at the time? This was later confirmed.

Termignoni make a claim of a maximum power increase of approximately 5% for the Ducati corse complete system.
5% or somewhere between 7-10 BHP. This has also been confirmed and depending on the situation, it is a lie or it is the truth. If you consider the horrendous early Upmap part of the "complete system," it is a lie because as confirmed by multiple tuners/dyno operators, it lost power.

If you consider the standard full header and muffler alone to be the "complete system," then this has been confirmed to be true by multiple tuners/dyno operators.

Don't confuse WSBK sytems as you are required to remove your cooling fan for those and that system has never been in the equation until you brought it up.

The post is very clear and self explanatory so please read it again if your confused. I say that without malice or sarcasm.

It would be nice if Rich22 could argue his own case rather than Fanboys arguing for the sake of it.

I challenge any Fanboy to go back through the posts and find anything wrong with the questions I have asked of Rich22 which justified his personal attacks or even justified no response.

Go back to the start and actually read the posts, don't speed read them actually take an open mind without prejudice and find fault with my questions!
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Gavin D,

I'm labelled a fanboy because I actually read ALL the information presented over the entirety of the development process until now? Explain this please? I've also been reading and making comments in this thread before you were active in it.

Rich has posted all of the information I have just presented to you. He has explained this during the entire development process throughout multiple threads.

No one is talking about the WSBK exhaust system. I am not interested in that system and have never referenced it. All this time it has been about the standard Full Termi system that is available to the general public.

I am not taking sides. I just presented you with a lot of information that either you missed, didn't car to read, or just don't understand.

Everything I posted above is relevant to the general public and what was available to us at the time it was posted.

I have read your posts and UNDERSTAND fully what you are saying and it appears that you agree with Bunbury Dyno, as clearly written above. Therefore you MUST agree with Austin Racing because they performed the same test and reported these results several times last year.

This isn't about me taking sides. I'm simply reading, and redirecting the information to those who may have missed it.

Now if we are still not understanding each other, then let me know how I can be more clear. I am approaching this logically without emotion, without bias, and with a lot of patience.
 
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WAfatboy said:
Yes it's starting to dawn on me that I would probably have been better off buying the Termi headers to go with my Slips and then getting Justin/Wayne to tune. All the negativity around the full system on release was never really counteracted by positive coverage of the systems performance with the new map and I'd not seen a dyno chart until the last couple of weeks. Anyway what's another $1900 between me and my Ducati dealer! I'll wait until after the dyno session on 6th May and then make a call but I'm already reconciling myself to this as a potential end result.
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The problem is, the only way you could really know which system is better for your specific bike would be to buy the headers and take everything to your tuner. They'd have to find the perfect map for the Ar system, then uninstall it and install the Termi system and map that. You'd have same day, same dyno, same tuner, same bike numbers. Then compare the dyno runs for both and pick which one you like better. What an expensive pain in the arse!

Hopefully you'll be happy with the May 6th numbers and you can avoid that scenario!
 
ttkarp said:
The problem is, the only way you could really know which system is better for your specific bike would be to buy the headers and take everything to your tuner. They'd have to find the perfect map for the Ar system, then uninstall it and install the Termi system and map that. You'd have same day, same dyno, same tuner, same bike numbers. Then compare the dyno runs for both and pick which one you like better. What an expensive pain in the arse!

Hopefully you'll be happy with the May 6th numbers and you can avoid that scenario!
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So do I but I'll be sure to post either way because I want the rest of the members to know exactly what they are getting. I'm lucky that I know of two local 1199s that are having Termi full systems tuned so I will have a comparison.
 
Wow...I've been reading this thread for pure entertainment value but I can honestly say after AR's threats and attitude that I, nor anyone I know or can contact, will ever buy one of the AR products.

Amazing display of 'cutting your nose off to spite your face'.

As a business owner myself, I would suggest a thicker skin you stay away from the forums.
 
WAfatboy said:
So do I but I'll be sure to post either way because I want the rest of the members to know exactly what they are getting. I'm lucky that I know of two local 1199s that are having Termi full systems tuned so I will have a comparison.
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That is the "missing link", idependent compare of AR/full Termi, same bike/dyno.
 
hsharpag91 said:
Wow...I've been reading this thread for pure entertainment value but I can honestly say after AR's threats and attitude that I, nor anyone I know or can contact, will ever buy one of the AR products.

Amazing display of 'cutting your nose off to spite your face'.

As a business owner myself, I would suggest a thicker skin you stay away from the forums.
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I have to agree and have said so albeit in diplomatic terms to date but actually anyone behaving like this in the real world would have be excommunicated from an community or group without a second thought. Instead we've actually condoned it by allowing it to be repeated several time across various threads without sanction.
 
WAfatboy said:
I have to agree and have said so albeit in diplomatic terms to date but actually anyone behaving like this in the real world would have be excommunicated from an community or group without a second thought. Instead we've actually condoned it by allowing it to be repeated several time across various threads without sanction.
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i guess this is very specific to this forum. other forums delete, sanction, intervene...

DUC is the owner and only mod, so there is no moderation. i think he is running a government experiment here... :confused:
 
Phil said:
i guess this is very specific to this forum. other forums delete, sanction, intervene...

DUC is the owner and only mod, so there is no moderation. i think he is running a government experiment here... :confused:
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It's a conspiracy! LoL
 
I wouldn't worry about it. Like I said, this is how I keep it in perspective :D.

tumblr_m5iyvffZnX1rynh0bo1_500.gif
 
Animal Farm is a cool book... short but a great allegory....
 
i'll just add this for the last time (famous last words):

the pani does much better with BACKPRESSURE. The termis satisfy this. The AR not so much, even with 1 or 2 baffles. Why do you think the SBK uses the termi MUFFLERS?
 
Phil said:
i guess this is very specific to this forum. other forums delete, sanction, intervene...

DUC is the owner and only mod, so there is no moderation. i think he is running a government experiment here... :confused:
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I am not sure this thread has really needed any moderation..in a forum sense... I for one do not advocate censorship or censure..(although Frosty's F bombs have pushed the bounds in other threads. :D)..AR hasn't behaved with the professionalism I would have hoped for..... But given the numbers this thread has generated its hard not believe its been of great interest...
 

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