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Fun facts and Company claims plus a question!
Ducati claim 195 hp at the crank. Termi claim full system will save 2kg and add approximately 5% power increase.
195 + 5% = 204.75hp at the crank. (9.75hp increase)
The average and universally excepted power loss from crank to rear wheel is approximately 10% due to mechanical and frictional influences. Reduce the loss to have serious gains!
204.75 - 10% = 184.275hp at the rear wheel (20.475hp decrease)
As approximately claimed by Ducati. A company that historically under estimates these figures to avoid ridicule.
YearOne claimed he got 186 with full Termi + rapid bike in a UK dyno. Up from 173 he thinks at first. An additional 5 rear wheel hp up to 191hp was gained he claims by the AR full system.
The pipe of the AR is the same diameter as the standard sys according to previous posts by AR so where is the extra power coming from?
Thats a 9% power gain being claimed by the AR system. Is it from length of the system, diameter or a variation of the radius of the bends?
I suspect Bends, lenght, 2 into 1, lack of muffler. only the design engineer would know.
Stw
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i doubt if you "divulge" some basic concepts behind your design it would in any way give up advantages to your competitors == after all, Termi et. al. do have engineering backgrounds and could EASILY extrapolate from your designs what you are doing by simply buying a system -- so forgive me in advance, but i don't believe this to be a fair response.
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I don't believe we will ever have a definitive answer which one provides the best HP. You have stock/Termi/full Termi/AR/Akro/others mated with stock/various upmaps/RB/TB/Bazazz/PCV/others. Then you have various dynos, various parts of the country, utilizing various methods. I really think you have to base your descision souly on cost/looks/weight/sound. You need multiple before/afters set up between each of the ssytems/tuning methods you are looking at, then take an average, to answer which is better. Any of these have a great sound, and will porvide somewhat of an increase.
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apologies but the above is pure bs! it's extremely simple actually: dyno system1, then dyno system2 just like WAf did. All variables of dyno exactly same = should get somewhat general yet NOT optimal result. AR claims even with stock fueling you get gains = not optimal but relevant for specific claims and comparo.
by stating AR can't be verified as per above reminds me of the other hobby called audiophilia whereby cables and wires purport to deliver fantastical aural improvements and yet can never satisfy most rudimentary A/B listening comparisons -- sounds a bit like snake oil to me...but hey some people don't think there's significant heat coming from bike, so maybe it is all subjective
ps if there never was HEAT issue, then do you think Ducati and Termi would have released heat shield v2 gratis?
pps if AR really wanted to prove that their INCONEL or whatever it's called metal truly does reduce heat they could do a side by side heat comparo -- maybe they did do this? i don't know....i still like the looks of the AR and believe that it must weigh a lot less than the full Termi based both on design and claims -- no one would fudge weight measurement as that is too easy to verify!
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Vast, what I mean is very few people will go from one system to the other. I.e., if I was looking at Akro/AR, I would have to buy both and test them on the same bike/dyno to make sure there actually was a difference. Now stock to anything, yes. But I would be basing the HP descision on someone elses tests, which dosen't look like a good idea at this point
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Well said get the one that sounds the best! Where in the hell will you use or can use all that power anyways? Unless you are One Arm Bandit!
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+1 lol
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Vast, what I mean is very few people will go from one system to the other. I.e., if I was looking at Akro/AR, I would have to buy both and test them on the same bike/dyno to make sure there actually was a difference. Now stock to anything, yes. But I would be basing the HP descision on someone elses tests, which dosen't look like a good idea at this point
we in this thread are addressing a very specific issue with specific member and his specific parameters. as such, we have (too) many comments here that are divide and conquer in nature and thereby confuse the basic issue; namely, that the AR system did not deliver on performance claims RELATIVE to specific system being replaced.
yes i can make all kinds of vast general statements and extrapolations, but that would only syndicate other rowboats and not WAf's fine machine and his specific exhaust mod$.
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You are absolutely correct, I was talking to the bigger picture, a different thread required. Their statements should say "your results may vary", and then all would be good.
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You are absolutely correct, I was talking to the bigger picture, a different thread required. Their statements should say "your results may vary", and then all would be good.
thank you. and even if they stated "your results may vary", WAf's results specifically indicate that the manufacturers' "claims" are at best inaccurate and at worst deceptive, a la Ducati's initial HP claims. People still bought the Pani even though HP was NOWHERE NEAR AS ADVERTISED, and some like 1Arm even sold Pani in disgust just so they could go faster in straight line on beemer!
disclaimer: i still prefer the AR system....
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Stw
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You do???? Why??
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because I'm vapid and vain and i prefer the LOOKS of the AR + I prefer LESS WEIGHT + i can brag that this exhaust is made of INCONTEL and is rarer than adamantium and has properties that turn heat into ice cold air so my balls run cool whenever i'm anywhere near that metal!
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Stw
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Correction, OneArm still has his "slow .... wagon" LOL. Either that or he's posting Youtube videos of someone else's Pani
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Correction, OneArm still has his "slow .... wagon" LOL. Either that or he's posting Youtube videos of someone else's Pani
i guess he just appreciates the aesthetics of this "slow .... wagon" == well can't fault him on his taste then.... and hey i'm sure he does take some pretty gnarly slow speed on ramp sweepers to get him onto those highway straights!
super OT: listening to Obummer attempt to impinge further on 2nd Amendment -- the NANNY STATE printing money Neo-Fascist Dems AND Repubs shitshow in full effect! I thought he was slandering the IRS until i realized he was referring to the NRA! 1913 the day the IRS and The Fed were born -- the year of BigGov! So funny how they're STAGING the speech -- that token "sufferer" in the background....aaahhhhhh what a farce the USSA has become....
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