Bike total weight and bias

rac1ngsnak3 · May 19, 2022

RickD996 said:
Most supersports bikes come 'on their nose', so to speak, at the moment. This, generally gives a sensation, at road speeds, of fast steering. More often than not, if you lower the front (or raise the rear), the bike may initially turn faster, but then the rate of turn dramatically drops, and the bike 'ploughs' on, or 'understeers'. And, it becomes increasingly hard to get the bike to go around a corner, as it's not steering fast enough.
Raise the front ride height, or lower the rear, and your bike, against all logic, starts to steer faster, and with more confidence, tracking any corner you wish.

Only way to really know, is to try it though.

I think it’s bc steering a motorcycle uses “counter steer” which shifts the contact patch contra lateral so it’s opposite of logic. Riding a motorcycle is like riding a bicycle in Bizarro World.

TomFoolery · May 19, 2022

RickD996 said:
Not quite. With more front biased weight, you actually get loads MORE feedback, and the front feels amazing. Just doesn't turn so good...or brake as well....or, accelerate as well.

Rick, I have some folks on ignore so I don't quite know who you are conversing with. I would just advice against discussing chassis dynamics with street rossis that don't have a clue. You will just wear yourself out.

Alkhater · May 19, 2022

rac1ngsnak3 said:
I think it’s bc steering a motorcycle uses “counter steer” which shifts the contact patch contra lateral so it’s opposite of logic. Riding a motorcycle is like riding a bicycle in Bizarro World.

Not all of it counter steer.

The entry to a corner is approached with counter steer but (this is largely corner type dependent) from then on its mostly steering into the corner which picks the bike back up and is where most of the rotation happens (at or pre apex) then it’s throttle steer.

This doesn’t apply to all corners but it’s a general theory that applies to a 90 degree corner for example.

It’s a dynamic ballet dance with a partner that really wants to go straight… or fall down.

andyb · May 19, 2022

TomFoolery said:
Rick, I have some folks on ignore so I don't quite know who you are conversing with. I would just advice against discussing chassis dynamics with street rossis that don't have a clue. You will just wear yourself out.

In some ways I agree its down to interpretation and understanding what you are trying to explain.

A bit like making a sweeping statement on who's who, then assuming whoever they are 'don't have a clue!'

rac1ngsnak3 · May 19, 2022

Alkhater said:
Not all of it counter steer.

The entry to a corner is approached with counter steer but (this is largely corner type dependent) from then on its mostly steering into the corner which picks the bike back up and is where most of the rotation happens (at or pre apex) then it’s throttle steer.

This doesn’t apply to all corners but it’s a general theory that applies to a 90 degree corner for example.

It’s a dynamic ballet dance with a partner that really wants to go straight.

Agreed. The initial counter steer destabilizes the bike to prepare it for the subsequent turn in the desired direction. With a steeper rake angle you’re more easily able to initially destabilize the motorcycle and initiate the turn but the trail (comprised of rake, offset, and tire size) is what stabilizes the turn and ability to balance CoG and centripetal forces while leaned over. But since rake is a factor of trail and tire size decreases also decreasing trail the bike becomes less stable and more sensitive to inputs once leaned.

Or it’s a delicate balance like alkhater says.

You don’t have to be a street Rossi to figure this out. You just need to be able to read a book.

double0 · May 19, 2022

andyb said:
In some ways I agree its down to interpretation and understanding what you are trying to explain.

A bit like making a sweeping statement on who's who, then assuming whoever they are 'don't have a clue!'

He added some folks on ignore who didn't agree with his one sided views on covid and the vaccine and I guess that automatically makes these same individuals lack knowledge in chassis dynamics. Who woulda thought one had a direct correlation to the other.

RickD996 · May 19, 2022

Could I interest anyone in a latte?

andyb · May 19, 2022

Thread is useless without pictures

Steven31371 · May 19, 2022

RickD996 said:
Plus, against all the odds, you get much greater braking stability, AND much increased traction on corner exit. What's not too like?

thats why mine is raised in the front….as a side note, with the nose down tip in is faster so it feels more agile, but then if the suspension isn’t set right you get oversteer or under steer

if your front fork compression is too soft you get under steer and drift wide after tip in … if front compression too firm you get over steer, and drift too far into the curve….that can happen regardless of front ride height.

rac1ngsnak3 · May 19, 2022

andyb said:
Thread is useless without pictures

Once you’ve seen one V4, you’ve seen ’em all. Mine’s nothing special. Same as the images on Ducati.com. Won’t be doing any significant mods. Maybe an Evotech tail tidy and that’s it. It’s way more bike than my talents.

But I can tell you that the suspension despite it being DES is way better than the manual NIX30/TTX GP on my 959. I prefer the manners of the V4 over the V2 bikes. Front feels more communicative. Tank is better shaped. EBC actually works and doesn’t batter your bits. Transmission is so slick. Ducati nailed it with this gen V4. I’m a miser, so spending this chunk of change was tough to justify but the new V4 made a surprisingly good case.

Either way, it doesn’t change motorcycle physics.

Keith197 · May 19, 2022

Topped off full of fuel on mine is 396 pounds but dont remember the bias numbers

Steven31371 · May 19, 2022

Man a lot of people here get really impatient with people saying or asking stupid things…dunno how one gets through life that way

seems like a much more feasible option to tune out stupid than to try to avoid it or give it more attention by criticizing it in this world, where 2/3rds of people can’t get out of their own way hahaha

what you give attention to in life increases, what you withdraw attention from diminishes

thomasmryan · May 20, 2022

True that.

Steven31371 · Jun 4, 2022

Weighed mine today with a full tank of gas, weight went up about 12 pounds despite lighter weight race fairings and lots of titanium fasteners and a slightly lighter exhuast.

the GB Racing and other crash protection stuff, the trussed and extended swingarm with the extra links on the chain, the bigger radiator with more fluid in it….all that stuff added up quickly in weight.

The bike went from 398 pound to 410 pounds.

the front rear bias was about 55% front and 45% rear WITHOUT me on the bike.

for ..... and giggles I weighed it again with me on it, and the front/rear bias went to almost exactly 50/50….with me on the bike it’s at 50.2% front and 49.8% rear, could balance it exactly 50/50 with a few adjustments, still though, pretty cool trick of engineering that the bias is so big without the rider on but 50/50 with rider on.

Vbreeze · Jun 5, 2022

What does it feel like now compared to before all the mods? I was watching your threads while you were working on it, but I don't remember any summery of ride feel during all of this.

Steven31371 said:
Weighed mine today with a full tank of gas, weight went up about 12 pounds despite lighter weight race fairings and lots of titanium fasteners and a slightly lighter exhuast.

the GB Racing and other crash protection stuff, the trussed and extended swingarm with the extra links on the chain, the bigger radiator with more fluid in it….all that stuff added up quickly in weight.

The bike went from 398 pound to 410 pounds.

the front rear bias was about 55% front and 45% rear WITHOUT me on the bike.

for ..... and giggles I weighed it again with me on it, and the front/rear bias went to almost exactly 50/50….with me on the bike it’s at 50.2% front and 49.8% rear, could balance it exactly 50/50 with a few adjustments, still though, pretty cool trick of engineering that the bias is so big without the rider on but 50/50 with rider on.

Bike total weight and bias

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