What ismyour engine brake control set at? Turn it down or off and then try...blips like a dream
Clutchless downshifts
- Thread starter wmcdonal
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What ismyour engine brake control set at? Turn it down or off and then try...blips like a dream
Thank god for that thought it was only me that noticed the inconsistency of throttle response when blipping.
Posted this on UK forum and no one else had seemed to have the "problem"
Ride by Wire - Weird !!!
Posted this on UK forum and no one else had seemed to have the "problem"
Ride by Wire - Weird !!!
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pro shift is a fully integrated and settable system at 5K usd installed... Digging deep into electronics. i gues that with current top, entry and corner speeds, brakes like hitting a wall and slipperclutches, there is almost no more time to do much blipping. slipper clutches have taken 90% out of the bite of a bad downshift...
it's on the wish list though....
it's on the wish list though....
I think that my point is being missed here.
The idea is to make the ECU do the blip for you, all the rider does is push down on the shift lever(assuming standard shift pattern), the ECU detects this and opens the throttle plates for an amount and time that are determined by looking up a table for the current gear.
This means the blip height and duration will be different depending on RPM and gear, this will provide the exact amount of throttle blip required to let the gearbox go down a gear, no more and no less.
This means you have one less thing to think about as you fly up to a corner.
The shifter type we are looking at using is a load cell type, this allows you to set the amount of pressure required for the up and down shift.
Using this type of shift switch ensures that the lever has enough pressure for the gearbox to change with no chance of a half shift.
This is better for the gearbox on up and down shifts.
I am sure all of you have had a false neutral and heard that crunching noise of a gearbox sitting between gears. This does lots of damage to gearbox dogs.
The idea is to make the ECU do the blip for you, all the rider does is push down on the shift lever(assuming standard shift pattern), the ECU detects this and opens the throttle plates for an amount and time that are determined by looking up a table for the current gear.
This means the blip height and duration will be different depending on RPM and gear, this will provide the exact amount of throttle blip required to let the gearbox go down a gear, no more and no less.
This means you have one less thing to think about as you fly up to a corner.
The shifter type we are looking at using is a load cell type, this allows you to set the amount of pressure required for the up and down shift.
Using this type of shift switch ensures that the lever has enough pressure for the gearbox to change with no chance of a half shift.
This is better for the gearbox on up and down shifts.
I am sure all of you have had a false neutral and heard that crunching noise of a gearbox sitting between gears. This does lots of damage to gearbox dogs.
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- May 19, 2012
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Ok, here are a couple of YouTube clips to show this in action.
This is just on the test bench and the blip amount/duration will need some testing to come up with the best numbers.
The first video shows the amount that the throttle is opening, I have set a long blip time so you can see the throttle move.
Slow motion throttle blip - YouTube
The second video shows this as it would happen for a down shift, when you view this you will see why I needed the video above.
Fast throttle blip - YouTube
As you can see the ECU can open and close the throttle in the blink of an eye.
The aim will be to have a big enough blip amount/time to unload the gearbox without giving any forward thrust at the wheel.
I have added a table to allow the blip amount/time to be set over the entire rev range for each gear.
This should provide the perfect down shift.
I am sure none of you can match the speed that the ECU can blip the throttle.
This is just on the test bench and the blip amount/duration will need some testing to come up with the best numbers.
The first video shows the amount that the throttle is opening, I have set a long blip time so you can see the throttle move.
Slow motion throttle blip - YouTube
The second video shows this as it would happen for a down shift, when you view this you will see why I needed the video above.
Fast throttle blip - YouTube
As you can see the ECU can open and close the throttle in the blink of an eye.
The aim will be to have a big enough blip amount/time to unload the gearbox without giving any forward thrust at the wheel.
I have added a table to allow the blip amount/time to be set over the entire rev range for each gear.
This should provide the perfect down shift.
I am sure none of you can match the speed that the ECU can blip the throttle.
You will need to change the speed shift switch on the shaft.
The one on the Panigale is just a switch that makes a connection when you push up on the shift lever.
This can easily be replaced with a load cell type, the load cell type changes voltage based on pressure.
This allows the ECU to not only see up and down but also the amount of pressure.
The one on the Panigale is just a switch that makes a connection when you push up on the shift lever.
This can easily be replaced with a load cell type, the load cell type changes voltage based on pressure.
This allows the ECU to not only see up and down but also the amount of pressure.
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- Apr 8, 2013
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- So Cal
Super pumped to see reviews on the system. A blip downshift load system would be awesome. I don't want to push buttons to shift. Rather still use my foot
The nice thing about this type of shift switch is that you can set the amount of pressure required for the up-shift as well as the down-shift.
No false shifts.
I think it is going to be cool.
We have a very good Dyno to do the testing on.
I will test the blip amount by setting the dyno to have a fixed load (I will try to log on the road so I can simulate the load as if it is on the road.
Once I have the load values correct I can test different blip amounts and times.
By watching the graph of speed and RPM I can make sure the blip does not slow the rate that the bike slows down.
No false shifts.
I think it is going to be cool.
We have a very good Dyno to do the testing on.
I will test the blip amount by setting the dyno to have a fixed load (I will try to log on the road so I can simulate the load as if it is on the road.
Once I have the load values correct I can test different blip amounts and times.
By watching the graph of speed and RPM I can make sure the blip does not slow the rate that the bike slows down.
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- Apr 16, 2013
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- Beaverton
Very cool!! Thanks wmcdonal!! Thanks for keeping us posted on your progress. Would this require a reflash of our ECU and the load cell switch you're talking about - and that's it? I enjoy blipping the throttle myself but there's no way I can match that speed
I am working on a new version of the maps at the moment, I should have these ready in the next week.
These will add support for the quick shift and clutchless down shift (Throttle blip).
Here is a picture of the strain gauge shift linkage on the MTS1200.
The strain gauge linkage allows the ECU to see the amount of pressure being applied to the lever for up and down shifts.
You will be able to set the pressure required before the ECU kills fuel for full throttle up-shifts and the amount of pressure before the ECU blips the throttle for clutchless down shifts.
The pressure amount can be adjusted between 2 to 30 kg of pressure.
The blip for down shifting should provide more stability while down shifting into a corner.
The kill time for up-shifts will be adjustable.
The new features will be in the maps for the MTS1200, Diavel and Panigale.
Not cruise only maps as this feature uses the other O2 sensor plug.
These will add support for the quick shift and clutchless down shift (Throttle blip).
Here is a picture of the strain gauge shift linkage on the MTS1200.
The strain gauge linkage allows the ECU to see the amount of pressure being applied to the lever for up and down shifts.
You will be able to set the pressure required before the ECU kills fuel for full throttle up-shifts and the amount of pressure before the ECU blips the throttle for clutchless down shifts.
The pressure amount can be adjusted between 2 to 30 kg of pressure.
The blip for down shifting should provide more stability while down shifting into a corner.
The kill time for up-shifts will be adjustable.
The new features will be in the maps for the MTS1200, Diavel and Panigale.
Not cruise only maps as this feature uses the other O2 sensor plug.
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- Jul 7, 2012
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- St. Louis
Is this a part we will have to purchase/install?
Can you explain the wireless interface to updating the ECU, physically what we will do to update it?
Can you explain the wireless interface to updating the ECU, physically what we will do to update it?
Damn guys. Call me old school but I enjoy the old school ways of Ill use the clutch. Christ we have cars that park themselves now. I can see where this would be helpful on the track but man are we getting lazy that we don't want to pull in the clutch anymore.Put your ass on the seat start it and go out and ride.Maybe I'm just an old man.
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