DDA+ and GPS

RdashP said:

Still, after reading the V4R user-manual, it’s not clear to me if this 'max 30laps/ 4 session' limitation mentioned only in the V4R manual is applicable for the V4(S/R) its internal ECU memory and/or (even) the 16MB DDA USB stick.

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Today during riding 'DDA Full' popped up in the dash.
I was quite surprised since after only consciously activating 'DDA on' myself in Settings during 4 rides, I was not aware that the DDA+ was actually logging ALL previously done start/stop rides in the background nevertheless!

During those rides the DDA+ seemingly made a log every time the bike's ignition was switched off. Resulting in almost 30 log files. Many *.dda files containing much more than 1 hour of riding-data.

16MB/ 27 *.dda files until stick was full:


1,5 hour ride south of Amsterdam:


Because of this I know for sure now the limitation of "30laps/ 4 sessions" is NOT applicable for DDA+ USB sticks installed in V4's.

In fact its memory limitation is for sure 16MB (duh!) a/o at least the 28 sessions, as logged until 16MB was full in my case.

I suspect the limitation is simply 16MB.
This would effectively mean you can log many hours of 'unlimited' laps and sessions limited only to the point the 16MB stick is full.

Looking at the data from the DDA Graphic Analyser software on my Mac, 1MB seems to be around 1hour of data.
This would mean upto 16 hours of lap-session recording until the DDA+ stick is full!

When 16MB of DDA+ stick is full it stops logging and you first need to clear its memory to have DDA+ resume logging.

RdashP said:

Hi Guys,

Anyway, I was wondering if anybody knows the sampling rate of the DDA+ GPS module for the V4 for a fact?

... versus the more granular DDA Graphic Analyser data view of same corner:



…it looks like the DDA-GPS is still only around 5Hz.

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01COCCOBET said:

Thank you
I didn't know that,I still don't have it in my hands.

This is my understanding till now:

[...]
12 5 Hz gps module

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Well it seems the DDA+ is actually 10Hz as the 'GPS Info' states in the DDA Graphic Analyser Mac Software:



That's hardware-wise not too bad and on par with many other GPS Satellite loggers like current VBox Sport and Aim Solo 2.

If the DDA Graphic Analyser Software would be improved by Prosa-Ducati, this would make it a more seriously competitive Laptimer product...

01COCCOBET said:

I go by step:


For the EVO 2 it would be great that we all suggest Ducati to include 2 years of free updates on software,from the purchase(like it would be linked to the warranty).
I believe that they could do it,and it would be a PLUS on the marketing side.

Anyhow I will tell you how it is,from my point of view,on the track only thoug.

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So you can follow my opinion on the EVO 2 on the other trd

A

01COCCOBET said:

Thank you
I didn't know that,I still don't have it in my hands.

This is my understanding till now:

As RDashP said:

1 DDA dongle has NO part number
IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY P/N
2 one part of the DDA has a USB port and one part has 4 pins that get info from the OBD port.
CONFIRMED
3 the memory is only 16MB(max 30 laps/4 sessions)
NOT REALLY,IT DEPENDS ON HOW MANY INTERMEDIATE TIMES YOU INSERT(A FULL DAY IS POSSIBLE)
4 16MB is the only memory possible(no extra or higher dongle)
CONFIRMED
5 GPS antenna could be installed under the seat or(if wire is present)under the front windshield(not proven difference)
CONFIRMED MINE IS IN THE REAR AND NO PROBLEM
6 What happens when the memory is full(overwrite or stops?)
STOPS MEMORIZING BUT SHOWN ON DASHBOARD
7 can you still see the lap times on the dashboard
CONFIRMED
8 you CAN'T erase only few laps via dashboard
CONFIRMED,ONLY FULL ERASE AND AFTER TURNING OFF DDA AND LAPS
9 you can use a MAC
CONFIRMED
10 NO APP or WIFI connection
CONFIRMED
11 high risk of missed lap in some occasion
NOT CONFIRMED,BUT NEEDS MORE DATA
12 5 Hz gps module
SOME INFO SHOWS 10HZ

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01COCCOBET said:

A

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11 is in fact confirmed. GPS data was inconsistent throughout several 20 min sessions @ COTA riding the Speciale.

Several 4+min laps recorded. In comparison to the GPS system on the 1299 which was set to flag laps in nearly the exact same location, there were never any missed laps.

Honestly, in this day and age of 100s of gigs of data on a single USB stick, spending roughly $700 on a GPS system with 16MB of memory seems a bit pathetic. Just my 2c. Believe me, I would LOVE to have a quality integrated system in the dash, but right now, it just isn't a respectable product.

Sent from my H1A1000 using Tapatalk

This.

MotoX183 said:

11 is in fact confirmed. GPS data was inconsistent throughout several 20 min sessions @ COTA riding the Speciale.

Several 4+min laps recorded. In comparison to the GPS system on the 1299 which was set to flag laps in nearly the exact same location, there were never any missed laps.

Honestly, in this day and age of 100s of gigs of data on a single USB stick, spending roughly $700 on a GPS system with 16MB of memory seems a bit pathetic. Just my 2c. Believe me, I would LOVE to have a quality integrated system in the dash, but right now, it just isn't a respectable product.

Sent from my H1A1000 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

1)

MotoX183 said:

11 is in fact confirmed. GPS data was inconsistent throughout several 20 min sessions @ COTA riding the Speciale.

Several 4+min laps recorded. In comparison to the GPS system on the 1299 which was set to flag laps in nearly the exact same location, there were never any missed laps.

Click to expand...

Was this 'fact' under SIMILAR weather conditions and with SAME satellite antenna placing under SAME material (OEM or after market racing) fairing and did you do initialisation similarly for both bikes?:

RdashP said:

'religiously' ... else you potentially miss out on lapmarkers

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2)

MotoX183 said:

Honestly, in this day and age of 100s of gigs of data on a single USB stick, spending roughly $700 on a GPS system with 16MB of memory seems a bit pathetic. Just my 2c. Believe me, I would LOVE to have a quality integrated system in the dash, but right now, it just isn't a respectable product.

Click to expand...

I fully agree with you.
Yet if 'only' 16MB of RAM for which the DDA+ USB stick does all(*) its logging for, easily allows for more than a full day of trackrace recording, why would we as customers and Ducati-Prosa care for that matter?
(* - i.e. 9 datatypes and 10Hz gps antenna (@10 position/sec))

Larger RAM would only make the DDA+ product even more expensive?
Since besides installing a nowadays cheap larger xMB of xGB flash-RAM, this would probably require Prosa to enhance and test its memory allocation code for the ECU-OS coping with the Canbus dataflows. Which was I guess (specifically) designed 'back in the days' for upto 16MB when even this amount of flash memory was expensive.

RdashP said:

'only' 16MB ...why would we as customers care for that matter?

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Honestly, 1st things 1st, I rather like Prosa to squeeze out the best possible user Xperience from this existing hardware setup first by:


1 - properly enhancing its supplied DDA Graphic Analyser Software to a similar or even better level as VBox and Aim are offering to their customers for their 'Sport' and 'Solo 2';

2 - Easy integration and overlaying DDA+ data on DiY (GoPro) movie content as Garmin does or even better with its VIRB Edit software;

3 - logging all/more V4 datatypes at the expense of some recording time, e.g. engine-temperatures, all electronic ABS-DTC-DSC-DWC etc. interventions by ECU per sat. position, etc.

4 - wireless(!) communication and integration of all V4 'DDA' data via an enhanced 'DMS' connection with Ducati Link app for smartphones a/o with DDA Analyser on MAC/PC

5 - etc
... - ...

10 - DDA USB stick ('old school'!) with zillion more RAM memory


In this order WE - already owning the expensive DDA+ kit for our V4's - could and should benefit from a vastly improved software for the existing DDA+ package too.

I just send an email to Prosa informing them about our DDA dislikes and needs, incl. link to this thread...

Honestly, the best thing to do is go to something like an AIM SOLO DL. I was sick of fn with it at the track and not getting lap times.

Keith197 said:

Honestly, the best thing to do is go to something like an AIM SOLO DL. I was sick of fn with it at the track and not getting lap times.

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Sure Keith.

Ducati-Prosa might just learn from this thread? Taking it in as valuable feedback and improve on their DDA kit.
Afterall even Aim and VBox didn't get where they are without learning and improving their satellite based Laptimers from external input.

I still strongly believe that also Ducati with partner Prosa are able to improve their current gps based offerings (i.e. DDA+ & DMS-Link app) towards our wishes and desires.

This would hopefully in the end integrate solid gps functions seamless into a (almost ) perfect bike instead us running to 3rd party solutions screwing ugly additional boxes onto our bikes.
I know. I know. VBox and Aim are specialised in this satellite based laptimer niche, but so is Prosa (are they?).

Anything can and if required should be improved upon. Keep on dreaming?

Keith197 said:

Honestly, the best thing to do is go to something like an AIM SOLO DL. I was sick of fn with it at the track and not getting lap times.

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That’s what I did. Spent 800 bucks on DDA. Ran 10 track days with DDA, it’s performance and limitations aggravated me enough to spend another 800 on Solo DL 2. The main hurdle was to figure out how to mount Solo and GoPro at the same time. Still tweaking that setup. I still use DDA for pretty lap timer on the dash, but it’s issues are not so critical for me now.

I modified my 1199 motoD GoPro mount to the left side of my BSD aim solo mount. Will run it at barber next weekend to see how well it works but seems solid.

This thread saved me from purchasing the DDA+ and instead going the AiM Solo 2 DL route. Thank you all for the great feedback!



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RdashP said:

1)



Was this 'fact' under SIMILAR weather conditions and with SAME satellite antenna placing under SAME material (OEM or after market racing) fairing and did you do initialisation similarly for both bikes?:





2)



I fully agree with you.

Yet if 'only' 16MB of RAM for which the DDA+ USB stick does all(*) its logging for, easily allows for more than a full day of trackrace recording, why would we as customers and Ducati-Prosa care for that matter?

(* - i.e. 9 datatypes and 10Hz gps antenna (@10 position/sec))



Larger RAM would only make the DDA+ product even more expensive?

Since besides installing a nowadays cheap larger xMB of xGB flash-RAM, this would probably require Prosa to enhance and test its memory allocation code for the ECU-OS coping with the Canbus dataflows. Which was I guess (specifically) designed 'back in the days' for upto 16MB when even this amount of flash memory was expensive.

Click to expand...

Clear sunning day (like most days in TX summer heat) stock bike with stock fairings with dealer installed DDA+. I believe it was mounted in the tail. Initialized in nearly the exact same location as the 1299 was. Basically from the factory to the track.

I now run an Aim solo 2, and it works flawlessly, however looks ...... mounted just above the triples vs. the dash integration of the DDA+ IMHO.

Couple of things would sell these like hot cakes:

1. Has to work flawlessly.
2. 4x mem to minimum 64MB (128MB preferably) to keep a little history on there if you want. Ability to save a session or PB.
3. Remove proprietary coding and use a more generally accepted format that we could export easily for video overlays etc.
4. 50Hz GPS
5. Minor premium over competitive high end GPS/datalogger, but nothing too crazy.
6. WiFi integration would be a plus

If they did this they would sell these like crazy. Maybe even sell rights to other manufacturers for additional revenue etc.

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I totally agree!

VirginiaKid69 said:

Thank you all for the great feedback

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most welcome

MotoX183 said:

Clear sunning day ... stock fairings ... Initialized in nearly the exact same location

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Well than you leave me puzzled as to why your V4 DDA performs worse than any/ your 1299 DDA and my V4 DDA (mounted in the back too)! Sorry.

May be the DDA satellite antenna module of V4 has a hidden production defect not rendering it useless but (much) less receptive?

We won't know why w.o. measuring the differences between both your gps modules. This can only be done with specialised Prosa equipment to measure signal/noise (dB) ratios differences under EXACT SAME (i.e. laboratory) circumstances.

To be honest, if your V4 DDA is still under warranty I would simply claim 'bad reception performance' with your Ducati dealer to have them swop this sat. module for a replacement.

MotoX183 said:

Couple of things would sell these like hot cakes:

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Yeah! Your wish-list nicely extends mine

MotoX183 said:

If they did this they would sell these like crazy.

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fully agree too. #highfive
Such a shame Prosa doesn't even reply to my emails requesting any insights into their intentions (if any) to improve DDA for us buyers

RdashP said:

... 'unlimited' laps and sessions limited only to the point the 16MB stick is full.

Looking at the data from the DDA Graphic Analyser software on my Mac, 1MB seems to be around 1hour of data.
This would mean upto 16 hours of lap-session recording until the DDA+ stick is full!

Click to expand...

@01COCCOBET Interestingly FYI!
I found this in Ducati's own 2019 Accessory catalog for all complete bike-gamma:



25 hours hours claimed for both V4 (P/N96580171B) and 1299 (P/N96580092A) versions of DDA! haha really?
Ducati Marketing is clearly NOT communicating DDA hardware Specs of its partner Prosa properly!
No surprise to me. Since they seem to suffer from the same internal mis-communication between (3rd party) tech & (Ducati) comms when it comes to DMS+LinkApp its commercially advertised 'ambition' vs. buggy reality!

As sad before here, in reality I come close to (only) 10-16 hours until memory stick is full.

Quite puzzled as to why this recording-time is so volatile since the data - for 9 by V4 DDA recorded fixed datatypes and gps track-info via 10Hz sat. position/sec - is normally a static fixed-length string when stored.
As a result, I would expect about the same amount of Bits and Bytes, therefore about same recording duration every time upto 16MB, until stick is full?!

Besides, from the 9 data-types recorded from V4, 'coolant temperature' is for SURE (sadly) not one I can choose/view in DDA Analyser software:


Additionally, 3 out of 9 datatypes recorded by V4 DDA are either useless or not recording/ displaying any data in Analyser SW:


Hello Prosa? This sounds like a BUG. Fix please.

RdashP said:

@01COCCOBET Interestingly FYI!
I found this in Ducati's own 2019 Accessory catalog for all complete bike-gamma:

...

Hello Prosa? This sounds like a BUG. Fix please.

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Which bike are you using btw?
I have the same channels on my 1299 DDA+ and torque fast and torque slow are for Traction Control and wheelie control detection.
I didn't know what they were at first due to the crap channel names, but after analysing some of my track data managed to figure it out I think.

Also, which email are you using to contact Prosa? I've been in email contact with them the last few days and they've been helpful. They did initially take some time though.

Since they've been acquired by Danfoss, all their contacts have changed:

[email protected]