fork rebuilding

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Happens. Everything is close toleranced. The fork nut seals the cartridge rod. When you reassemble run it down (it will bottom), snug it and lock it down with the lower nut. When you take it apart next time hold the lower nut and loosen the fork nut.
 
BTW. I've changed all my belt drive fgr's to the superbike valving. The fork is both plusher and more controlled. The high speed compression damping stack is totally different from what Ducati supplied. Helps dampen chatter in the front when heeled in and is way better on choppy pavement. I'm still bummed about Dan Kyle.
 
Ok so I've got the nut and spring off. Was tough but got it done. The lower white plastic spring perch came out as well, with about 300ml of dark fluid.

Oddly, the central threaded rod, and the ridged white cylinder that it sits in, will not come out of the lower fork stanchion. It can't be pulled out. I guess no big deal, because I've now access to the outer gold tube for new seal and dust cap. And I'll pop in the new 11.0 spring no problem.

But--I now need to know the exact amount of fluid to add, and when to measure. This was the leaking fork, so I know it had more than 300ml originally. I'll go back over my resources. Of course, the right fork will have the correct fluid amount in it, but I can't get to that until I've put this one together--one at a time--

Thanks to you all--

Greg
 
You need a tool to remove the damper rod. I wouldn't get it from Ducati though. Its a standard Ohlins tool.

4-lug damper rod removal tool

As to your fluid problem, it seems there's some confusion over it even in old threads on this site.

ducatiforum.com

1299S Front Suspension Overhaul Surprise

Hello Gentleman; At more than 16.000km (10.000 Miles), my 1299S just started leaking oil on the front suspension seals. I've bought the original parts from the distributor and handed the Ohlins seals to my mechanic. The next day he phoned me, a bit confused, told me on the phone that...
ducatiforum.com ducatiforum.com

Since they are similar to the V4S forks, I suggest using the V4 air gap number as a baseline unless you find better info.

ETA: An old post from another site with relevant info. My 2021 V4S forks are FL9670 with a 2020.02.24 date.

www.ducati.ms

1199 S Öhlins rebuild Q's

www.ducati.ms www.ducati.ms

#11 · Sep 15, 2014
That's interesting.

My forks say FG9250 with a build date of 2012 02
My bike was in the very first shipment(May 2012).

What was your build date?


Anyway, I Googled the model of my forks(OHLINS FG9250) and it came straight up with the full spec sheet from OHLINS for the 1199 Panigale S from when it was developed for DUCATI.
The information on the sheet gives everything about them.

They are indeed FG R&T 43 forks, and the fork oil that's spec'd from factory is listed as art no 01309, which is the very same OHLINS fork oil you are also looking at. It is the current OHLINS reference fork oil and supersedes their previous fork oils.
The spring is listed as part no 04744-10 (10 N/mm).

Of particular interest.
The spec sheet lists the oil level as 220 mm (*)
(*) = no preload tube, no spring.

Cheers:)
Click to expand...
 

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This is the cartridge socket I mentioned. You can use it to remove the cartridge. And when it's out you can clamp the cartridge, heat the nut to smoke the loctite and then unscrew the nut to get to the high speed damping shim stacks. The cartridge is fragile so to clamp it I bored an appropriate hole in two 2 x 4s then cut them in half and clamped the whole thing in the vice. If you disassemble the cartridge it gets glued back together with red loctite and torqued to 35 nm. The cartridge after assembly gets torqued into the fork leg 35 nm no loctite. I'm curious what the shim stacks (particularly the compression stack) look like in that fork.
 
Guys--thank you--but do I really need to remove the damper rod/cartridge? Is there further dirty fluid to remove? If it's sealed, I'd rather leave it alone and move on. This bike has low miles, 6000 miles. BP--are the 1199/1299 forks really that similar to the V4 generation? I thought the new Panigale V4S had active suspension. But what do I know? LOL!

The main impetus for doing this job is to replace a leaking seal, install 11.0 springs, and refresh the fluid. I'm now at a stage where I can do all that.

This does introduce a new question however--if I'm not draining the cartridge, is that less fluid to add? That's why the better number to know is: air gap. I'll figure it out!

I do appreciate the links--I'll examine those next.

Greg
 
If you like the damping leave it in. Use the cartridge rod to pump out the fluid. Then turn them over overnight and all the fluid will be out. When you reassemble and fill it do the same thing until the force feels the same every stroke then the cartridge is full. Set the oil by height. Ohlins runs between about 110 mm and about 160 mm typically. If you're heavy and your springs are one the soft side you can raise the oil level and vice versa. Ohlins has a force versus oil height graph somewhere.
 
greggiacona said:
but do I really need to remove the damper rod/cartridge?
Click to expand...
Nope. Don't over think it. Do the best you can, maybe hang it upside down if you're super worried.
greggiacona said:
I thought the new Panigale V4S had active suspension.
Click to expand...
It's the same semi-active. The S suspension (xx99S/V4S) merely uses electronic adjusters to turn the rebound and compression needles. One fork is rebound, the other compression. This is opposed to Showa forks which have rebound and compression on each fork. The V4 may be more advanced into how it makes adjustments, but the forks are very similar. I can't readily spot differences when looking at pictures. 2022+ V4S forks are gas charged, so those are different.
 
My FGR's are set at 145 mm spring out preload tube in I think. Must be different due to the electronic adjusters. 1098 SF S's were set at 110 mm (it's a wheelie landing thing). And my 1198 S started at 155 I think.
 
You're using irrelevant numbers under different considerations without making that caveat known. Which is my problem with near everything you post.

200-230 (230 being OEM) is more typical for the modern S Ohlins forks (read xx99 & V4) and is always preload tube and spring out. I saw the air gap load chart for Ohlins cartridges, not the OEM style forks. I don't think the numbers would equate, since the cartridge would take up more volume inside of the fork.
 
Yep the nuts way longer. The fork volume is nearly identical so the actual air volume will be also nearly identical (spring in, cap on). He should find the air gap chart for his fork part number as I mentioned before. Ohlins publishes these. Ohlins has really good documentation.
 
baggerman said:
He should find the air gap chart for his fork part number as I mentioned before.
Click to expand...
If it exists, which I don't think it does, post it. There are air gap charts for Ohlins cartridges, which he's not using.
baggerman said:
Ohlins publishes these.
Click to expand...
Not any more.
baggerman said:
Ohlins has really good documentation.
Click to expand...
Pure ......... The documentation on the products they offer to OEMs is near non existent. If you have better knowledge, post it. By that I don't mean post that you drew something with a slide rule fifty years ago and that somehow makes you smart, but rather post something relevant to the OPs concern.
 
I’ll say that I’ve been unsuccessful in finding any Ohlins documentation re: these OE 1199S Panigale forks. I’ve scoured their document page and have found zero.

RE: fluid level-indeed the right-side fork will have the correct factory-set fluid level but that fork is still on the bike- perhaps I should have started with that one.

For the left one I removed 300ml, probably lost ~50ml to leak, so I’ll drop in 350ml. Would still like to know the recommended air gap- looks like it may be 230mm w/ no spring/spacer.

Greg
 
bp_SFV4 said:
If it exists, which I don't think it does, post it. There are air gap charts for Ohlins cartridges, which he's not using.

Not any more.

Pure ......... The documentation on the products they offer to OEMs is near non existent. If you have better knowledge, post it. By that I don't mean post that you drew something with a slide rule fifty years ago and that somehow makes you smart, but rather post something relevant to the OPs concern.
Click to expand...

I find documentation (complete with oil height chart) for the standard ohlins non electronic fork for these to state the standard oil level to be 190 mm. Normally I'd just call Dan Kyle and just ask (I'm still bummed about Dan). Get the number off the fork (normally at the bottom of the fork leg) and call your Ohlins parts dealer they'll have documentation. If no one can supply this I'll explain how to calculate the number. I would prefer, Poseursan, to use a round rule if I were to need one it's faster. I still have both style of slide rules. And you're right all us old engineers are draftsmen also. I started my career drawing bluelines. BTW Poseursan you can readily change to the Pani head bushing on your SF while the front frame is still assembled. That's if you need it to actually turn hard. Aluminum's coefficient of linear expansion readily allows for this.
 
So more nonsense then. This is very typical for your posts. When confronted it’s all misdirection and name calling. No one was talking about steering head bushings or “coefficient of linear expansion.” Anything you post without citing a source with a link or some other means of verification is pure hot trash. So please go back to the engine tuning thread, post more made up nonsense, get called out and start writing about cars and map sensors to further deflect your lack of knowledge.
 

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