Help needed - problem with gear position sensor and DQS (Ducati V4 2018)

B

Bai Mityo

Joined Aug 2019
9 Posts | 7+
Sofia, Bulgaria
Hello fellow Ducatisti.

I have a Ducati V4 1103cc, 2018. The bike now has 1300 miles on it. It is an amazing bike. I use it as a track bike. The first impressions were amazing, and I had several track days without any problems.

However, after a recall, in which the dealer changed the radiator and the clutch cable, a strange problem manifested itself - the bike loses the gear position after 1/2 lap and disables the DQS and most of the rider aids.

The bike has been to the dealer twice since this happened. They said they have reset the ECU and that should fix the problem. However, the problem persists and it is really annoying, since I can establish that only once I am already at the circuit. What makes the problem even more bizarre is that while the bike is cold everything works normally, but once it gets hot (again - 1/2 lap) - no gear position info. After a 3-4 hour rest - the bike seems to find the gears, and again - when it gets hot - nothing.

What makes it even more bizarre is that I stripped a sensor from a friend's bike - it worked for a day, and afterwards it started to behave like my old sensor.

I checked the Service Manual, and it seems there are three cable running from the ECU to the gear position indicator - a 5V source (pin 18, which besides the gear position sensor also powers the side stand switch hall sensor and the quick shifter), signal cable (pin 59) and gear ground (pin 76). It seems that everything is intact with the 5V source signal. I do not know how to measure the signal (I would guess you need an oscilloscope for this).

I wrote to people working with Ducati parts, and there seems to be a part number change for the gear position sensor. The previous part number was 55243521A and the new part number is 55243522A. My bike seems to have the latter.

Now, after all this - does anyone have an idea what the problem might be or what to look for before ordering a new sensor?

Thanks guys!
 
Are you using a sidestand delete plug? Stock QS or aftermarket? If either or both, you need to eliminate these possibilities since they are on the same 5v circuit.
 
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My 1199S did something similar with the brass sensor located on the transmission that feeds info to the computer for gear position. On the 1199 the sensor is right below the exhaust loop so heat is most likely the culprit.

On the V4 I am not sure but as GunMoto mentions, you should eliminate the potential source of interference by replacing/ checking the impact those connections potentially have on that circuit.
 
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GunMoto said:
Are you using a sidestand delete plug? Stock QS or aftermarket? If either or both, you need to eliminate these possibilities since they are on the same 5v circuit.
Click to expand...

Hello GunMoto. Thank you for your response. No, I am not using a side-stand delete - the stand is still there. The QS is the stock one. They are both working, so it seems it is not the circuit. Do you have any other ideas?

JHTmcrider said:
My 1199S did something similar with the brass sensor located on the transmission that feeds info to the computer for gear position. On the 1199 the sensor is right below the exhaust loop so heat is most likely the culprit.

On the V4 I am not sure but as GunMoto mentions, you should eliminate the potential source of interference by replacing/ checking the impact those connections potentially have on that circuit.
Click to expand...

Hello JHTmcrider, thank you for your response. Yes, the problem seems to be exactly as on your 1199S - the ECU does not get gear information, and disables the DQS and the other rider aids. On the V4 the sensor is on the opposite side of the exhaust and is a hall-effect sensor. But while I was removing the second sensor from a friend's bike to try it I noticed two small spacers behind the sensor that were missing on my bike. I am almost ready to blame this for the possible sensor failure and buy a new sensor and fit spacers to let some of the heat dissipate between the sensor and the gearbox. I just wanted to check with you guys if anyone has had a similar issue and probably knows something more about the issue / possible problem with the bike.
 
I'm having the exact same issue. Started after a HOT track day and when my mechanic reset everything it ran normally until I hit the track again. Once warmed up, the dash lit up, gear selector just showed a dash. It temporarily went back to normal when we changed some traction control settings and turned the key off/on a few times, but once I went back out on the track the dash lit right back up and the gear selector went away. The first couple of times my QS and autoblipper worked, but this most recent time, nothing worked. Please keep me posted. This is ridiculous.
 
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Bai Mityo said:
Hello GunMoto. Thank you for your response. No, I am not using a side-stand delete - the stand is still there. The QS is the stock one. They are both working, so it seems it is not the circuit. Do you have any other ideas?



Hello JHTmcrider, thank you for your response. Yes, the problem seems to be exactly as on your 1199S - the ECU does not get gear information, and disables the DQS and the other rider aids. On the V4 the sensor is on the opposite side of the exhaust and is a hall-effect sensor. But while I was removing the second sensor from a friend's bike to try it I noticed two small spacers behind the sensor that were missing on my bike. I am almost ready to blame this for the possible sensor failure and buy a new sensor and fit spacers to let some of the heat dissipate between the sensor and the gearbox. I just wanted to check with you guys if anyone has had a similar issue and probably knows something more about the issue / possible problem with the bike.
Click to expand...

What model bike was your friend's with the spacers?
 
airjawed said:
The 1299 has a gear teach procedure and likely the same in the V4. I believe in the procedure you need the engine casing to achieve a certain temperature. I found a forum thread showing

the procedure but for the 1299:

http://ducatiforum.com/mechanical-technical/30521-gear-teach-procedure.html
Click to expand...

Thank you for this, airjawed. I have done the gear teach procedure, but I am not sure if I did it with the engine warmed up enough. The dealership definitely has not heard of this. I will try it and post

feedback.

rja4z3 said:
What model bike was your friend's with the spacers?
Click to expand...
Hello, rja4z3. I am not 100% sure, but I will get this information and post it for reference when people keep searching for this.
Also, you having the same issue is somewhat soothing for me - that means that I am not the only one and there might be something from Ducati after all.

I was wondering - did you take it to the dealership? If so - what did they say?

I will keep the topic alive - hopefully with a solution.
 
I’ve just had the same issues on my V4S,
Was out for a ride and the Side stand sensor went to ...., lost drive and wouldn’t drive in gear again as it thought the side stand was down when it wasn’t....
Next I know when it was sitting in the garage, I turned ignition on and the gear indicator on the dash has gone to .... and just showed ‘-‘
As above these sensors are on the 5v loop so maybe related issues?
Bike is currently at the dealer.
 
rja4z3 said:
I hadn't heard of this. Was the gear teach procedure developed because of symptoms we're experiencing?
Click to expand...
This is true for the 1299 and can be performed by the rider via dash options, but for the V4 it is not possible. I've had the exact same issue several times and lost all functionality during a race weekend. Basically the Gear Position sensor is prone to failure. It is mounted directly to the cases and seems it is unable to handle the heat generated on the motor.

You can't just replace the GP sensor, because you need to re-learn the gears by going through a very specific procedure AND on top of it all the V4 needs the Ducati Diagnostic System computer to perform the procedure... Unlike the 1299.

Sent from my H1A1000 using Tapatalk
 
From Bai Mityo:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by airjawed View Post
The 1299 has a gear teach procedure and likely the same in the V4. I believe in the procedure you need the engine casing to achieve a certain temperature. I found a forum thread showing the procedure but for the 1299:

Gear Teach procedure
Thank you for this, airjawed. I have done the gear teach procedure, but I am not sure if I did it with the engine warmed up enough. The dealership definitely has not heard of this. I will try it and post feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rja4z3 View Post
What model bike was your friend's with the spacers?
Hello, rja4z3. I am not 100% sure, but I will get this information and post it for reference when people keep searching for this.
Also, you having the same issue is somewhat soothing for me - that means that I am not the only one and there might be something from Ducati after all.

I was wondering - did you take it to the dealership? If so - what did they say?

I will keep the topic alive - hopefully with a solution.
 
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MotoX183 said:
This is true for the 1299 and can be performed by the rider via dash options, but for the V4 it is not possible. I've had the exact same issue several times and lost all functionality during a race weekend. Basically the Gear Position sensor is prone to failure. It is mounted directly to the cases and seems it is unable to handle the heat generated on the motor.

You can't just replace the GP sensor, because you need to re-learn the gears by going through a very specific procedure AND on top of it all the V4 needs the Ducati Diagnostic System computer to perform the procedure... Unlike the 1299.

Sent from my H1A1000 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

On the 11,1299 as long as it flash "C" on the gears you are able to do the re-learn procedure. BUT if it doesnt,then the same procedure as with the v4,you must connect it with the diagnostic instrument.
 
Since it only happens under extreme heat (haven't heard of any non-track users having this issue), I wonder if a phenolic spacer (or other heat isolator) might help. I mention phenolic because if it's truly a Hall's Effect sensor, you'd want something non-magnetic, as I believe most phenolic gaskets/sheets are. Thoughts?

Edit: Spacer part number is 85244491A and the best description I found was "Ducati 4X8X0,2 DIN 998 A2 INOX WASHER". INOX is stainless steel, which in this case isn't magnetic, but isn't going to help with the heat either. Perhaps 1 spacer of stainless and one phenolic (or other non-magnetic heat insulator) might help.

San
 
Last edited:
My mechanic said Ducati has updated the gear sensor b/c of this issue, but the part is on backorder. Has anyone else heard this?
 
Steveo said:
I've just had the same issues on my V4S,
Was out for a ride and the Side stand sensor went to ...., lost drive and wouldn't drive in gear again as it thought the side stand was down when it wasn't....
Next I know when it was sitting in the garage, I turned ignition on and the gear indicator on the dash has gone to .... and just showed "˜-"˜
As above these sensors are on the 5v loop so maybe related issues?
Bike is currently at the dealer.
Click to expand...


Hey mate if you look carefully you might well find that the tiny magnet that is normally glued into the side stand fell out. That happened to me. I think there's a service bulletin item on this. I was lucky to find the magnet ! The side stand switch won't work without it - I would have been marooned in the middle of nowhere.

You can just sticky tape a magnet either to the stand or (better) to the switch temporarily to fix this. Later, I used 5 minute araldite to glue it back in - couldn't be bothered going to the dealer to have them do exactly the same :)
 
Any update from the people experiencing the gear dashes and warning lights? I had the issue and my mechanic replaced the gear sensor with the newest model that is supposed to be updated. Doing my first track day post-mechanic on Sunday. Will post as to whether or not I survive the day without issue.
 
rja4z3 said:
Any update from the people experiencing the gear dashes and warning lights? I had the issue and my mechanic replaced the gear sensor with the newest model that is supposed to be updated. Doing my first track day post-mechanic on Sunday. Will post as to whether or not I survive the day without issue.
Click to expand...

Hello rja4z3,

We ordered the new sensor from Ducati too. Could you please write after the track-day to say if all went well?

Since it is the middle of the summer and Ducati Europe seems to be on a summer break, we had nothing to do while waiting but to dig into the issue. We made some measurements with the failed sensor that we have. This is the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrVVznq9MSE

In this video we are showing the possible problem and solution: the sensor is experiencing extreme heat due to the nature of track-riding. The sensor should withstand 125 degrees Celsius as per the specification. However, our failed sensor is experiencing failure at around 70 degrees Celsius.
We measured the signal from the sensor (the yellow wire) when the sensor is cold and when the sensor reaches and exceeds 70 degrees Celsius. Then we reinstalled the sensor on the bike and did the same test. When we cool the sensor down, the gear position indication returns.
 
Bai Mityo said:
Hello rja4z3,

We ordered the new sensor from Ducati too. Could you please write after the track-day to say if all went well?

Since it is the middle of the summer and Ducati Europe seems to be on a summer break, we had nothing to do while waiting but to dig into the issue. We made some measurements with the failed sensor that we have. This is the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrVVznq9MSE

In this video we are showing the possible problem and solution: the sensor is experiencing extreme heat due to the nature of track-riding. The sensor should withstand 125 degrees Celsius as per the specification. However, our failed sensor is experiencing failure at around 70 degrees Celsius.
We measured the signal from the sensor (the yellow wire) when the sensor is cold and when the sensor reaches and exceeds 70 degrees Celsius. Then we reinstalled the sensor on the bike and did the same test. When we cool the sensor down, the gear position indication returns.
Click to expand...

Any attempt to use a phenolic spacer (or 2) instead of the stainless steel spacers?

San
 

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