Holding on at WOT

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Posting this in the Panigale forum because it’s more active and I’m interested in knowing your experience.

I’m finding it very difficult to hold on to my SFV4 at WOT as I feel like I can’t get enough purchase on the foot pegs. I’m instead forced to rely on my butt until the power band kicks in then I’ll either slide to the back of the seat or have to use my arms to hang on which is far from ideal.

I’m using the DP rearsets, set at maximum height and most rearward but still feel like I want them at least 2 inches backwards for me to properly plant myself with my feet.

On track during corner exit this situation is exaggerated even more… I feel the grip to accelerate harder but I’m reluctant because I feel like the bike will escape from underneath me.

How are you guys dealing with this situation? Or are the ergonomics that different on the Panigale?

Cheers


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I had a similar feeling of feeling like I was going to slide off the back of the bike at wot when changed my sprocket teeth to make it pull harder. The sensation was coming from the rear end squatting down too much on wot.

We fixed that by putting a stiffer spring on (the one on the bike at the time was too soft for my weight) and getting the sag settings right, and getting the compression and rebound set correctly.

Before we corrected all that the feeling of sliding off the back of the bike was unsettling enough to make me back off of WOT.
 
What is the difference between 316 and ridesmart

want to return this year to Cota

have been there with ridesmart, but not with 316
 
Getting a push from the back of the seat in hard acceleration out of corners is one of my favorite feelings in life. The best kind of spanking. Worth the price of the Ducati.
Really, you're missing out. Fix the other aspects with foot position, software & suspension set up like everyone is saying. I think it might be a bunch of little things that together make it work with less effort.
I'm also not a pro, but at the track, I'm able to hang off and accelerate at the same time. If doing it wrong, it's exhausting. Doing it right it's fun and not exhausting.

Things working / not working for me:
Super grippy seat material is not my favorite because your pants stick then you slide inside your pants until you get a snuggy. Medium grip is great. Slippery is a nightmare.
Side-Tank grips are really helpful.
I started watching feet as much as possible in all the races. It's a dance. Everyone has a style. In hard acceleration tip feet forward in front of pegs not completely on top. Tuck toes in. Align shins and weight so the momentum is not tiring. You'll have to experiment until you get the right feeling.

Wheelies: it's either wrist or software wheelie control. Seat position is a little bit of it but it's not like a 200hp bike won't wheelie sitting on the handle bars.

Get a different seat with the ... block in the back. It’s like having Velcro pants
View attachment 40218
 
What is the difference between 316 and ridesmart

want to return this year to Cota

have been there with ridesmart, but not with 316

Track density is the main difference, cost is second (316 costs more).

316 has fewer people on track, less coach to rider ratio and generally makes for a less stressful trackday.

Ridesmart has its place and I enjoy riding with them too. But its more of the traditional mass market trackday experience.

I'll be at COTA for most events this year and look forward to seeing you all!
 
Simon Crafar describes what I’m talking about in this tech talk perfectly… scroll to 8:00




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Apex, slowest point, knee down. Before I can add any throttle, I need an exit so I can reduce lean. If I can add throttle and accelerate without reducing lean, then I over braked the turn to begin with (and someone has smoked past me). I never find myself in a position to where I could add significant power until I am pretty much tracking in a straight line or TC / WC will instantly bark back and remind me about grip. On my RSV4 I am usually close to 80+ before I can ever really get the throttle all the way down and if WC is set low enough the front will be off the ground, every time at the top of second gear. An early press of the GP shifter will kill some of the torque and the bike will settle back down onto two wheels. At some point the wings do work although I wonder at what speed as I inadvertently bumped TC completely off at Roebling Road and the Ape did do a power wheelie around 160. I never feel the punch off the corners that some describe, it's more of a ballet with a well-mannered beast masked up with really good electronics.

You need to be all the way back on the seat anyway, it's the best position for rotating around the tank. I have a long torso, so being further back actually allowed me to get lower in the cockpit and also drop my head lower as I stand the bike up and pick up throttle; it's the last bit of weight you can transfer down to reduce risk. I used to try and catch a heel on the outside peg (because YouTube) then one of the Yamaha Champ School instructors said not to waste time with the extra movement. He proceeded to show me a nice pair of boots with a crater in each. They are locked in on those pegs and up against the rear bump, its all you have.

The only time there should be heavy grip pressure is during braking, but try and offset some of that with the inside of the outside leg against the back of the tank. Hope this helps. Wish someone would have posted this for me last year.
 
Apex, slowest point, knee down. Before I can add any throttle, I need an exit so I can reduce lean. If I can add throttle and accelerate without reducing lean, then I over braked the turn to begin with (and someone has smoked past me). I never find myself in a position to where I could add significant power until I am pretty much tracking in a straight line or TC / WC will instantly bark back and remind me about grip. On my RSV4 I am usually close to 80+ before I can ever really get the throttle all the way down and if WC is set low enough the front will be off the ground, every time at the top of second gear. An early press of the GP shifter will kill some of the torque and the bike will settle back down onto two wheels. At some point the wings do work although I wonder at what speed as I inadvertently bumped TC completely off at Roebling Road and the Ape did do a power wheelie around 160. I never feel the punch off the corners that some describe, it's more of a ballet with a well-mannered beast masked up with really good electronics.

You need to be all the way back on the seat anyway, it's the best position for rotating around the tank. I have a long torso, so being further back actually allowed me to get lower in the cockpit and also drop my head lower as I stand the bike up and pick up throttle; it's the last bit of weight you can transfer down to reduce risk. I used to try and catch a heel on the outside peg (because YouTube) then one of the Yamaha Champ School instructors said not to waste time with the extra movement. He proceeded to show me a nice pair of boots with a crater in each. They are locked in on those pegs and up against the rear bump, its all you have.

The only time there should be heavy grip pressure is during braking, but try and offset some of that with the inside of the outside leg against the back of the tank. Hope this helps. Wish someone would have posted this for me last year.

Did you watch the tech-talk video I linked? Because you’re missing the point. The video also addresses your wheelie issue and describes my original concern clearly.

I’m case you haven’t seen it… I’ll summarize. Relying on your butt to be the main pressure point during corner exit on a 200+ hp bike is a recipe for wheelies. Simon clearly describes that you want to be pushing down on the foot pegs, practically standing or hovering on the seat. This is basically to stop your ... from pivoting about the rear wheel and maintaining leverage on the bike.

For this technique to be done right the foot pegs have to be positioned slightly behind the fuel tank kick up.


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Stoner gives a few tips


What does any of that have to do with topic of this thread? Lol… tangent galore!

He’s talking about corner entry and mid corner front end tuck prevention and this thread is literally titled “holding on at WOT”

WTF is the average IQ here.


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Its a tangent for sure but he talks about his learning process which I thought you might find useful and its not just anyone, its Stoner giving out riding gold. Tbh I dont understand your problem about hanging on at wot as I havent had that issue on any single seat sportsbike. I just grip the tank pin it, short shift until I get comfortable. I also practice relaxed arms and using core strength all the time.
G'luck
 
Its a tangent for sure but he talks about his learning process which I thought you might find useful and its not just anyone, its Stoner giving out riding gold. Tbh I dont understand your problem about hanging on at wot as I havent had that issue on any single seat sportsbike. I just grip the tank pin it, short shift until I get comfortable. I also practice relaxed arms and using core strength all the time.
G'luck

Grip the tank on corner exit?

You must be spiderman.

What stoner is talking about might be revelation to you but it’s common practice at that kind of pace.

If you watched the tech-talk you might have understood what I’m talking about.

Go to 8:00 and watch it ffs!


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Did you watch the tech-talk video I linked? Because you’re missing the point. The video also addresses your wheelie issue and describes my original concern clearly.

I’m case you haven’t seen it… I’ll summarize. Relying on your butt to be the main pressure point during corner exit on a 200+ hp bike is a recipe for wheelies. Simon clearly describes that you want to be pushing down on the foot pegs, practically standing or hovering on the seat. This is basically to stop your ... from pivoting about the rear wheel and maintaining leverage on the bike.

I watched the video. I think everyone is saying the same thing, it's core, anchoring your feet on the pegs and the backstop. No one is hanging onto the grips. I haven't tracked my SF yet, just the RSV4 and 1299.

Lastly, I am not having wheelie issues, I use electronic aids with 215hp bikes and I expect the front to get really light or go airborne as I approach full throttle in the last 2-3000 revs.

To remind you, you originally posted this:

On track during corner exit this situation is exaggerated even more… I feel the grip to accelerate harder but I’m reluctant because I feel like the bike will escape from underneath me.

The bike wont escape from under you, maybe high side you if you are really jumping to that kind of power level with lean angle applied. Again, I ask you this. How are you finding the grip to get that kind of power down on corner exit? It sounds to me like you are just pointing and shooting the bike around the track, every R6 behind you is cursing.
 
I watched the video. I think everyone is saying the same thing, it's core, anchoring your feet on the pegs and the backstop. No one is hanging onto the grips. I haven't tracked my SF yet, just the RSV4 and 1299.

Lastly, I am not having wheelie issues, I use electronic aids with 215hp bikes and I expect the front to get really light or go airborne as I approach full throttle in the last 2-3000 revs.

To remind you, you originally posted this:



The bike wont escape from under you, maybe high side you if you are really jumping to that kind of power level with lean angle applied. Again, I ask you this. How are you finding the grip to get that kind of power down on corner exit? It sounds to me like you are just pointing and shooting the bike around the track, every R6 behind you is cursing.

Who said anything about hanging onto the grips? That’s bad technique and causes serious instability issues.

You seem to have some generic idea of what a corner is… some corners demand a point and shoot line. A 1st or 2nd gear hairpin for example, turn 4 Phillip Island, turn 10 Motegi… there’s so many examples of this. Turn 6 Losail, even turn 16 in 3rd gear.

Grip you say? I’m on corsa II’s ffs. On slicks this would be exaggerated even more.

Don’t worry about it though, I’ve found my answer.


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Here is Josh Herrin on an S1000RR. He is short shifting the heck out of the bike on the upper end (probably to keep the front end down), kissing 50+ degrees on streets and the TC is continuously firing at partial throttle on corner exit. He is nowhere near full power until that bike is straight up and down. I am for the life of me trying to figure out how you are getting to WOT on corner exit before Josh and worried about falling off the back. Based on your body position in your avatar (it needs work), I think you are just point and shooting the bike. WOT on anything over 600cc at corner exit means you are over slowing the corner.

Thunderhill Raceway Park East Course - Motorcycle GoPro Lap 2:07 (Correct Lines) - YouTube
 
Here is Josh Herrin on an S1000RR. He is short shifting the heck out of the bike on the upper end (probably to keep the front end down), kissing 50+ degrees on streets and the TC is continuously firing at partial throttle on corner exit. He is nowhere near full power until that bike is straight up and down. I am for the life of me trying to figure out how you are getting to WOT on corner exit before Josh and worried about falling off the back. Based on your body position in your avatar (it needs work), I think you are just point and shooting the bike. WOT on anything over 600cc at corner exit means you are over slowing the corner.

Thunderhill Raceway Park East Course - Motorcycle GoPro Lap 2:07 (Correct Lines) - YouTube

Lmfao [emoji23] the pic in my avatar is me entering a corner.

I feel like I’m talking to a manikin.


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Posting this in the Panigale forum because it’s more active and I’m interested in knowing your experience.

I’m finding it very difficult to hold on to my SFV4 at WOT as I feel like I can’t get enough purchase on the foot pegs. I’m instead forced to rely on my butt until the power band kicks in then I’ll either slide to the back of the seat or have to use my arms to hang on which is far from ideal.

I’m using the DP rearsets, set at maximum height and most rearward but still feel like I want them at least 2 inches backwards for me to properly plant myself with my feet.

On track during corner exit this situation is exaggerated even more… I feel the grip to accelerate harder but I’m reluctant because I feel like the bike will escape from underneath me.

How are you guys dealing with this situation? Or are the ergonomics that different on the Panigale?

Cheers


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I didnt read thru everything but her are some valid points

-These bikes have wild power, and you are riding a dumbed down version, a naked bike SF
+Getting used to the power takes a while, last season was my first foray into big bikes - its frightening at first but you get used to it
-You are on a bike that the riding posture is sitting pretty straight up, this with a lot of power will not be a comparable to proper super bike
-If you have a OEM seat there is no grip, Race Seat It is the best bet
-I if you really like riding at the track get rid of your street fighter and get a regs V4
 
I didnt read thru everything but her are some valid points

-These bikes have wild power, and you are riding a dumbed down version, a naked bike SF
+Getting used to the power takes a while, last season was my first foray into big bikes - its frightening at first but you get used to it
-You are on a bike that the riding posture is sitting pretty straight up, this with a lot of power will not be a comparable to proper super bike
-If you have a OEM seat there is no grip, Race Seat It is the best bet
-I if you really like riding at the track get rid of your street fighter and get a regs V4

It’s hardly a dumbed down version. It’s basically the same bike but with handle bars which are maybe 3 inches higher than the Pani clipons. Sure that will make a difference and yes my seat is stock but I’m not sliding, I find it grippy especially with leathers.

What I want is the ability to support myself using the pegs more than the seat. It’s an ergonomic issue and therefore I understand how the bars can have an effect.

At this point I’m confident I need more peg adjustability. It could be that the Pani DP pegs move further back than the SF as they do have different part numbers.


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Its basically not the same bike, less power. And its for sitting straight up, so when you crack on you are going to launch backwards every time, you dont have fairings to block the force. The oem seat is anything but grippy, if you think about you weight dist @ WOT is it mostly on the pegs of your rear sets? Absolutely not, its on your ... esp on the street fighter. Footpegs moving backwards wont help, the fact is that you body should be more over the front.
 
Your head should be where your mirrors would be
8559f8cab000e4ad8343b96bf04cce6b.jpg



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