is this legal here?

NOLA said:

Thats actually pretty impressive...in under two minutes the good liberal professor (No offense to the two Cali guys on this thread) acknowledged that we have a bill of rights (which liberals use when it fits their side), he was a criminal defense atty (no surprise there), insulted the cop in the room, and in a sly way bashed Christians while acknowledging his former student kept her mouth shut to Congress.

Thats a lot of banter in 2min.

I'm still watching.

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I'm not even even close to a liberal.

ScrapperX said:

I'm not even even close to a liberal.

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NOLA said:

True, some good points there Ken !...but again, thats straying from the topic...Of course there are lots of devices to track your actions, the vast majority of America cars have "black boxes" that are accessible thru the OBD-II port. Most people dont know about it and what it records in a crash, in THAT case the Officer will need a warrant, post crash, to show seatbelt use, braking, and acceleration data pre crash. THATS something you need a warrant for because its intrusive.

TAKING the camera, thats clearly mounted on the bike to record the driver's violations is a totally different story, that we are discussing here.

And the same guys who are the ones perpetuating the same old worn out rumors like "if he doesnt sign in the right spot its invalid", "if the date isnt written correctly its invalid", "He didnt put his badge number on it, it never happened"...Those are the ones that say "well prove that was today", "How do you know its me riding", "it didnt occur in your jurisdiction"....etc etc, ad nauseum, are the ones that wear tinfoil hats, believe Bush planned 9/11 and are found GUILTY in court. Its all that...trying to say something enough to make it the truth.

When those guys are asked "Ok, so it wasnt you...The tape recorded you being stopped at 1:23 pm, you were on the bike at 1:22pm, it wasnt you ?" Even hearing the sirens in the background. And the tape doesnt stop once, nor does the rider get off the bike, but doing 85 in a 20 was someone else on the bike ? Ok, it wasnt his jurisdiction, cool...Give me 5 minutes and State Police will be enroute.

Its just all stupid ... arguments by someone that is "trying" to use a technicality instead ADMITTING HE DID IT !...Thats what ticks me off about this. All these characters will try and find out 100 ways to game the system and play hide the .... with the cops, but refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

Sorry for the rant. And WhitePani, and Mark...sorrrrryyyyy if I came off kinda abrasive. Its hard to hear my tone over this. I really didnt mean it mean I DO have a hurt feelings report though.

NOLA

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I hear what you are saying but don't you think it's only relevant when you are talking about whether a judge or jury believes it or not? Of course the police might believe it. But does that matter? Doesn't it matter what you can prove?

The user sets the date on the gopro. Mine is set to 0100, Jan 1, 1974. Is there a supercomputer in a lab somewhere that can tell exactly when a video was recorded? Are there gps coordinates somewhere hidden in the video file? None of that matters for our discussion, the question was if an officer believes the camera contains some sort of incriminating evidence, so does he have the power to seize it as evidence? I dunno but I say it must be reasonable. If you answer "Yes I recorded myself for the last hour" or if the recording light is still blinking while he is writing the ticket, etc. then perhaps. But to find a camera on your person or attached to your vehicle and then determine it is capable of providing incriminating evidence, how do you know that? Honestly I don't think so.

I get your "stupid person" examples as well. And I agree with you. BUT this is not one of those examples. I have never ever seen a Dallas police officer write a traffic ticket where the infraction location was a downtown intersection in the city of Fort Worth. Sorry, that's not going to happen NO MATTER WHAT. We are not talking badge numbers or dotting i's or crossing t's or wrong car colour. If you rewind the video and I passed by the Bank of Fort Worth with the speedo showing 75mph and the you know that bank is located on 22nd Street where the PSL is 45mph, no way can a DPS trooper arrive on the scene, review the video, and then write a citation when he never personally saw you speeding. Remember the ticket has a sworn statement on it and the Dallas PD is not going to sign off on it either. Even if the bank sign reads 2:00pm and it is now 2:30pm which adds up time-wise...you get my point.

I know all about how the phone works, no need to explain it. The point I was making, how come the officer cannot seize the phone to have the lab re-open the GPS app and replay the recorded tracks (if any)? How come the officer cannot seize the phone so he can get the phone number in order to check with the carrier for possible information? How come the officer cannot seize the phone to check and see if you were running a downloaded app that tracks your every move? How come the police can't seize your phone to see if you were running Trapster which could provide an indication of your past speed? The phone is certainly capable of it, just like a portable GPS is capable, just like a camera is capable of providing video evidence. My point is you have to believe the equipment contains evidence of THE crime, not A crime. And then you need a warrant when it comes to some things. Reviewing the contents of a phone, reviewing the camera's video...I believe you need a warrant. You don't need a warrant to ask the passenger. You don't need a warrant to ask the bank teller. You don't need a warrant if the owner freely turns it over for inspection. to get my phone and go into it, you need to make an arrest and not simply detain me for a traffic violation.

But you are correct, our discussion was about probable cause. I don't agree that needing a warrant is based on how intrusive. Not so intrusive no warrant needed. Very intrusive, get a warrant. A good officer who want to make a car will get a warrant before he starts to search your impound for evidence. I don't believe you will ever get a warrant to plug into the OBD port to review information subsequent to a traffic infraction. But then again, I don't know every state and I don't know every judge....anything is possible I guess.

I may have strayed off topic again but that happens when you type too much and your post goes long, sorry about that.

https://www.eff.org/wp/know-your-rights

The police pulled me over while I was driving. Can they search my cell phone?
A: Maybe. If the police believe there is probably evidence of a crime in your car, they may search areas within a driver or passenger's reach where they believe they might find it - like the glove box, center console, and other "containers." Some courts have found cell phones to be "containers" that police may search without a warrant.

Arizona v. Gant, 129 S.Ct. 1710 (2009).

See e.g., United States v. Finley, 477 F.3d 250 (5th Cir. 2007); Wurie, 612 F.Supp.2d at 109-110; United States v. Cole, 2010 WL 3210963 (N.D.Ga. Aug. 11, 2010) (unpublished); United States v. McCray, 2009 WL 29607 (S.D.Ga. Jan. 5, 2009) (unpublished

An officer is permitted to look in your phone's contents if there is no password or security enabled, essentially considered public access. If you have some type of password it is considered private and therefore would require warrants etc. to search it. Of course that wouldn't prevent them from asking if they can search it, and for you to say NO.

OK for police to search cellphone if no password, says court - Toronto - CBC News

Biker alleges Dallas Sheriff Deputy made up charge to seize video evidence (RAW) - YouTube

This cop made up a reason to arrest the motorcyclist so that he can get camera checked.

Look at what this poor guy had to go thru by the police:

Lawsuit: Man forced to undergo enemas, colonoscopy on invalid warrant - CNN.com

shoulda watched the whole thing, the other half was a police detective. I marvel on show cops and such people tell the cops ANYTHING. ditto with speeding, etc.

You sound a little bit contemptuous of people exercising their rights?

It's a great vid.

NOLA said:

Thats actually pretty impressive...in under two minutes the good liberal professor (No offense to the two Cali guys on this thread) acknowledged that we have a bill of rights (which liberals use when it fits their side), he was a criminal defense atty (no surprise there), insulted the cop in the room, and in a sly way bashed Christians while acknowledging his former student kept her mouth shut to Congress.

Thats a lot of banter in 2min.

I'm still watching.

Click to expand...

icucar said:

Biker alleges Dallas Sheriff Deputy made up charge to seize video evidence (RAW) - YouTube

This cop made up a reason to arrest the motorcyclist so that he can get camera checked.

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Well, since most fender eliminators are technically illegal, you just handed the police an excuse to do this. Can't see his license plate, so can't verify, but generally police know what they are doing. And there are generally 100 things an officer can arrest you for if he really wants to. Jaywalking, missing a reflector, changing lanes without signal, you name it. You also, to the best of my knowledge, cannot withhold evidence from the police, your private property or not, he has reason to believe, good reason, that you were recording crime. I'd think the guy could also face charges for impeding a police investigation. And if you start off a conversation with an officer with "you can't do that" and "what is your badge number" and that kind of garbage, the incident probably isn't going to go the way you want it to. Here is some free legal advice, arguing and standing your ground with an officer NEVER is the correct route. If you think a law or procedure has been violated, do what the officer tells you to, and seek remedies after the fact.

zvez said:

Look at what this poor guy had to go thru by the police:

Lawsuit: Man forced to undergo enemas, colonoscopy on invalid warrant - CNN.com

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The questions remains, if they would have found a go pro in his ..., would they be able to watch it?

Here is where a student owns a cop. Who else can get away with this except for someone who knows the law? Know your rights.

Cops owned by law student! - YouTube

If the officer tells you to give him permission to search your vehicle, say NO. Do not as you put it "do what the officer tells you to" because that may not be in your best interest. If the officer says reach into the center console and pull out all the contents and place them on my hood, tell him NO. If the officer says shut-off the gopro camera, remove the SD card, and hand it to me, say NO. Because if you do, it doesn't matter if the officer's actions are right or wrong, you permitted it. If an officer is allowed to do something, he will do it and he doesn't need to ask you. If an officer is not allowed to do something, he might ask and if you allow it, it will be legal. Don't allow it.

Know your rights and don't give them up willingly.

Not every encounter with the police has to be nasty. If you haven't done anything wrong, the encounter will most likely be pleasant. If you happen to run across an officer who isn't playing by the rules, you have to resist or push back without fighting or escalating in a manner consistent with standing up for your rights. But if you don't know how to do this without finding yourself in even more trouble, then I suggest you cave it and drop all your defenses and let that officer have his way with you and live with the results. Good luck with that.

kensteele said:

If the officer tells you to give him permission to search your vehicle, say NO. Do not as you put it "do what the officer tells you to" because that may not be in your best interest. If the officer says reach into the center console and pull out all the contents and place them on my hood, tell him NO. If the officer says shut-off the gopro camera, remove the SD card, and hand it to me, say NO. Because if you do, it doesn't matter if the officer's actions are right or wrong, you permitted it. If an officer is allowed to do something, he will do it and he doesn't need to ask you. If an officer is not allowed to do something, he might ask and if you allow it, it will be legal. Don't allow it.

Know your rights and don't give them up willingly.

Not every encounter with the police has to be nasty. If you haven't done anything wrong, the encounter will most likely be pleasant. If you happen to run across an officer who isn't playing by the rules, you have to resist or push back without fighting or escalating in a manner consistent with standing up for your rights. But if you don't know how to do this without finding yourself in even more trouble, then I suggest you cave it and drop all your defenses and let that officer have his way with you and live with the results. Good luck with that.

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I did not suggest you give permission for searches or volunteer anything. But yes, if an officer give you an order, you can state your objection, but if he insists, you need to follow the order. Advising people to pick fights with cops is not wise. Yes, know your rights. But you refuse to do what an officer tells you to do, that is not going to end well. Even check out ACLU advice on what to do. Your recourse is after the fact, not fighting with officers. Hey, do what you want. And yes, you are right to be careful on giving consent, they are very good at tricking you into consent. But I also must admit I cannot stand general attitude generally given to officers, such at the guy in the other video.

Denver Rick said:

But I also must admit I cannot stand general attitude generally given to officers, such at the guy in the other video.

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I really believe it depends on where you live.
Not all officers or people are bad. Here in SOCal the general attitude towards officers is pretty poor because the officers general attitude towards the public is pretty bad too. I see a lot of crime going on and I see a lot of rights being violated by the police because they know that the poor immigrants (legals) who do not speak English very well, doesn't know their rights, cannot afford a lawyer and won't do anything about it because they are scared. You see it all the time on the news here in SoCal. The law is the law and officers shouldn't abuse their powers and people shouldn't break the law but unfortunately that isn't going to happen.

Denver Rick said:

I did not suggest you give permission for searches or volunteer anything. But yes, if an officer give you an order, you can state your objection, but if he insists, you need to follow the order. Advising people to pick fights with cops is not wise. Yes, know your rights. But you refuse to do what an officer tells you to do, that is not going to end well. Even check out ACLU advice on what to do. Your recourse is after the fact, not fighting with officers. Hey, do what you want. And yes, you are right to be careful on giving consent, they are very good at tricking you into consent. But I also must admit I cannot stand general attitude generally given to officers, such at the guy in the other video.

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Sure I think I can agree with that. Folks just need to to be able to tell the difference between a police order and something else. If you arent doing anything wrote you probably don't have much to worry about. It's also easy to decline at first and then obey on the second request but in general you can be safe to immediately obey orders that sound like commands. Stop move your car let me see your hands. But when you hear when where or how be careful. This isn't advice lol.

We have the provincial cops who patrol rural areas and they're actually pretty smooth. They don't have the manpower to control speeding on secondary roads , so if you know where to go there's a lot of fun to be had without too much worry.

Towns with more than 50k inhabitants have a municipal force, and those guys are worse than the plague. They have ticket quotas to fulfill and if you get stopped by a zealous one towards the end of a month your days are numbered. Friends of mine got pulled over and when they asked what was wrong, the cop said: " Don't worry, we'll find something."

I believe the guys getting caught in the OP were with municipal cops.

US & A is unfortunately fast becoming a Police State IMHO..... Land of the free?? Hmmmm...not so sure about that one..... Freer than some...no doubt... but not quite what we would like to believe...

(Steps off soapbox.... Exits stage left..)

Land of the Free with the highest prison population per capita in all the world.

We do have very good freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. Not much else.

Many things are illegal and most Americans are criminals, just not prosecuted. Something to hang over your head if you get 'out of line'.

mark419ny said:

can the cops in the US take your go pro? i know if youre dumb enough to post on you tube a crime then they can use the footage but can they take your go pro if they pull you over and review it. i cant imagine that is legal
CBC My Region - 229 total demerit points issued to 2 Ottawa motorcyclists

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No offence Mark. But you will not get an answer to that question here. You will only get ........ bush lawyer opinions.

Each law will have its own laws and perhaps county etc. People who come out and say "No they cannot do that" without knowing the exact individual circumstances are just pissing in the wind.

Most people get their knowledge and opinion based on watching hollywood. CSI is not real life.

RandallNYC said:

I'm in the legal profession, also work and reside in NYC. The police can take your camera and use it against you. You must first be arrested, then the police would have to get a warrant. The same thing goes for camera phones. People love to take incriminating pictures of themselves. My advice is not record yourself if you are breaking the law.

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bradp51 said:

No offence Mark. But you will not get an answer to that question here. You will only get ........ bush lawyer opinions.

Each law will have its own laws and perhaps county etc. People who come out and say "No they cannot do that" without knowing the exact individual circumstances are just pissing in the wind.

Most people get their knowledge and opinion based on watching hollywood. CSI is not real life.

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I don't post often. Because I don't know much. I mostly read here on this forum. But I do happen to know about this particular topic. I'm 100% sure on this one.