Keeping the front down...

Hakosuka · Sep 12, 2012

I need some good advice from experienced racers on what I'm doing wrong.
On my local track you take the last corner in 2nd gear and then go on the power as hard as you can for the straight. When the power kicks in in 2nd I can't keep the bike down. Below is a video from the track. I've set the youtube clip so that it starts in the last corner. This guy is incredibly fast and the bike doens't even seem to lift when he comes on the straight.
Yamaha R1 2008 Zolder - Sprintrace 26/07/2012 - YouTube

What am I doing wrong? I refuse to believe I have to short-shift because this will cost me time.

jarelj · Sep 12, 2012

We have a slow 2nd gear turn on one of our home tracks also, and it's a challenge on a liter bike to keep the front down. You have to make sure you're rolling on the throttle progressively and not "whacking" it open, or you will quickly over-compress the rear suspension and make it more wheelie-prone. Think of it as the opposite of how a stunter induces a throttle wheelie, they whack it open quickly to get the bike to stand up, you want to do the opposite. You also have to keep your weight as far forward as possible, put your belly onto the fuel tank to keep weight over the front. Finally check your rear suspension and make sure it's not set too soft (both the sag and compression damping), or the bike will squat too much in those slow corners when the throttle is initially applied. You might also need to short-shift slightly, maybe 10k rpm or so.

Here's an example, this video at 1:40 where I pass the ZX-10 out of the slow 2nd gear corner that I'm referring to above, I'm at full throttle in 2nd gear with no wheelie.
http://youtu.be/_7s6VZdqgcg

MacaveliMC · Sep 12, 2012

Good advice.

It's also helpful to look at the example of professional riders. If you watch MotoGP you know that they have loads more power than they could ever put on the ground simply by opening the throttle progressively and moving their weight forward. They have to manage it, and so do we. You'll also notice on straight acceleration their front wheel will be just barely hanging above the ground. This is good throttle control, putting as much power into the rear wheel to get as much forward momentum as possible just before it's too much and the wheel lifts way up on you and that forward momentum goes into upward momentum. Also, I could be wrong, but I think they may short shift just a bit as well, I'd have to go back and watch a race where they show an onboard view with tach to see where/when they shift.

Marcbc · Sep 12, 2012

jarelj said:
We have a slow 2nd gear turn on one of our home tracks also, and it's a challenge on a liter bike to keep the front down. You have to make sure you're rolling on the throttle progressively and not "whacking" it open, or you will quickly over-compress the rear suspension and make it more wheelie-prone. Think of it as the opposite of how a stunter induces a throttle wheelie, they whack it open quickly to get the bike to stand up, you want to do the opposite. You also have to keep your weight as far forward as possible, put your belly onto the fuel tank to keep weight over the front. Finally check your rear suspension and make sure it's not set too soft (both the sag and compression damping), or the bike will squat too much in those slow corners when the throttle is initially applied. You might also need to short-shift slightly, maybe 10k rpm or so.

Here's an example, this video at 1:40 where I pass the ZX-10 out of the slow 2nd gear corner that I'm referring to above, I'm at full throttle in 2nd gear with no wheelie.
2012-08-13 Motorsports Park Hastings Lap2 - Panigale - YouTube

This.

jarelj · Sep 12, 2012

MacaveliMC said:
Good advice.

It's also helpful to look at the example of professional riders. If you watch MotoGP you know that they have loads more power than they could ever put on the ground simply by opening the throttle progressively and moving their weight forward. They have to manage it, and so do we. You'll also notice on straight acceleration their front wheel will be just barely hanging above the ground. This is good throttle control, putting as much power into the rear wheel to get as much forward momentum as possible just before it's too much and the wheel lifts way up on you and that forward momentum goes into upward momentum. Also, I could be wrong, but I think they may short shift just a bit as well, I'd have to go back and watch a race where they show an onboard view with tach to see where/when they shift.

The MotoGP guys also have very sophisticated electronic anti-wheelie control as well, so do the World SBK guys. Best to watch World Superstock where they don't have that level of electronics, and yes they're able to keep the front down with good throttle control, some will even use a touch of rear brake to keep it down in particularly wheelie-happy sections of the track.

Stw · Sep 12, 2012

jarelj said:
The MotoGP guys also have very sophisticated electronic anti-wheelie control as well, so do the World SBK guys. Best to watch World Superstock where they don't have that level of electronics, and yes they're able to keep the front down with good throttle control, some will even use a touch of rear brake to keep it down in particularly wheelie-happy sections of the track.

Ahh... That's what the rear brake is for............

George Villar · Sep 13, 2012

What is your DTC set at?

Hakosuka · Sep 14, 2012

Thank you all for the good advice!

Jarelj, I'm putting as much weight on the tank as I comfortably can. I have the larger windscreen so I'm tucked away behind it

. I'm not quite sure if I shoud position my lower back against the seat cover or stay more on the front part of the seat. My suspension is stock settings in race-mode

.

In all honesty I never use my rear brake . It makes sense to load up the rear suspension by using it. Can't figure out why I never thought of it...

.

George Villar said:
What is your DTC set at?

It used to be 4 but it didn't give me a lot of freedom and took away power when I didn't want it to. Now it is set to 3 with Diablo SC2 tires.

MacaveliMC · Sep 14, 2012

jarelj said:
The MotoGP guys also have very sophisticated electronic anti-wheelie control as well, so do the World SBK guys. Best to watch World Superstock where they don't have that level of electronics, and yes they're able to keep the front down with good throttle control, some will even use a touch of rear brake to keep it down in particularly wheelie-happy sections of the track.

So are they able to turn off wheelie control at will? They seem to have no problem pulling wheelies in celebration.

jarelj · Sep 14, 2012

MacaveliMC said:
So are they able to turn off wheelie control at will? They seem to have no problem pulling wheelies in celebration.

Yup they have a switch on the handlebar, plus on the GP bikes the wheelie control is tuned specifically corner-by-corner using the electronics so they can have as much or as little wheelie control in each corner as they want.

jarelj · Sep 14, 2012

Hakosuka said:
Thank you all for the good advice!

Jarelj, I'm putting as much weight on the tank as I comfortably can. I have the larger windscreen so I'm tucked away behind it . I'm not quite sure if I shoud position my lower back against the seat cover or stay more on the front part of the seat. My suspension is stock settings in race-mode .

In all honesty I never use my rear brake . It makes sense to load up the rear suspension by using it. Can't figure out why I never thought of it... .

It used to be 4 but it didn't give me a lot of freedom and took away power when I didn't want it to. Now it is set to 3 with Diablo SC2 tires.

When you're trying to keep weight on the front, slide as far forward on the seat as you can, then after you've got your momentum going down the straight you can gradually slide back so you can get in the maximum tuck position.

jyli19 · Sep 14, 2012

Bester Wheelie aller Zeiten - YouTube

Remember Pedrosa, this is what happens when you forgot to your "on" your wheelie control.

jyli19 · Sep 14, 2012

Laguna Seca 2011 lorenzo's crash - YouTube

And this is what happens when you forget to turn "off" launch control.

Keeping the front down...

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