Modding my V4 for a right hand only rider

i never rode it with the orignal master cylinder .. but my son said that it was a bit soft as well, and had no really identifiable or tactile WALL when applied.. its just crazy that old 748 brake lever... SHITTTTT I THIHNK I I JUST FIGURED THIS OUT...ILL GET BACK TO IN A BIT

ok... so its much better.. i figured out that when i tried the old 748 brake master as the brake master (which is the clutch master now) i also grabbed a nd used the banjo bolt which goes to the clutch master and it has 2 larger holes for more fluid flow... but when i put the new brake master as the brake master i used the original banjo bolt which is a much smaller hole and only 1 instead of two oft hem, thus restricting fluid flow... so i found a new banjo bolt that i had not used that had 2 larger holes ike the clutch banjo bolt and GD if it did no remove about 60 percent of the softness

so the softness it had has been reduced by about 60 percent, now i can feel a much more defined WALL. its still has quite a bit more pretravel before it hits that wall as compared to the old 748 brake master.. but the softness has been greatly... when i quickly with as little actuall pressure as possible squeeze the levr to that wall, i can just hear and feel a very faint ....THUNK THUNK

the other thing i was thinking that might be happening is that the old 748 psc16s bore has a lot of use on it, so after i polished it, it is a n absolute mirror finish with just bit of crosshatching from the course polish grit i used..
the new psc16 also has a mirror finish but not as defined with slightly more course of a crosshatch in it from the factory, these deeper ridges might be contributing to microscopic air bubbles developing causing a bit of softness in the system but thats just a reach
as of now the different banjo has been the hugest increase in that lever feel..

you know what i have never considered that and that would a very good way to get air to go up... like it naturally wants to flow...
only problem that if you pressurize fluid through those bleeders, fluid is going to piss all over the place from around the threads .

i would be willing to bet that if you bought a 2 hole brembo banjo bolt.. and swapped it in for the 1 hole banjo that ducati put on it. or just drill larger hole in the factory one and add a second
hole, you might fall in love with that master cylinder just a little bit.
you would have the same stopping power that you already have but alot of ,,about 70 percent of the initial softness that you feel would go away and you would be much closer to that kinda THUNK I WAS mentioning.
the small hole acts like a restrictor and limits the initial amount of fluid that cant travel.. maybe consider just swapping in a 2 hole banjo bolt.. and if it gets better you could drill out the 2 holes to a larger size
that freeflow is i think what is allowing me to get closer to that lever hitting a solid wall feel that i like. im guessing they were trying to keep the end user from going over the bars.

i did the rubber band trick with 3 loops for lots of pressure on the lever after 30 minutes.. more came out of the master and obth calipers, i also used a dremel with a lopsided wheel to vibrate and i held it ooto the abs unit and both
calipers, not much but very small bubbles came out of all three. and i was able to get the lever to maybe 70-73 percent of the way i like it.

heres the ducati...1 hole pretty small..



heres the brembo bolt, the hole is about twice the size of the ducati bolt and it has 2 of them 180 deg apart.

a side adventure.. my mini dachshund decide to chew my first key to an unusable state the chipk lcd died and for anot was falling out. so i used my number two and not after 30 seconds of me turning my back she had destroyed my number two key.. so i called the dealership and decide i would not pay 175 a piece and . i just the phrozen mighty 8k about 3 months ago... and i upgraded to 12k from 8k. which was unnecessary but for another 140 or so i got the upgrade.. this took about half a day.. it turns out that there is nothing even slightly symmetrical on the black section or the key stamping. so had to start over a couple times and in the end i modeled only the left half then mirrored it to get it identical on both sides. the copy it and added male female keys for a bottom half and voila. i decided to have a little fun with it.. these are printed with TR300 which has a heat deflection temp of up to 190C which is pretty impressive.. i may print it with some black resin but this is the highest temp stuff phrozen has.. i had some fun with this side project..

im happy to report that the change in banjo bolt has made all the difference in the world.. there is a much more tactile wall than before and it seems to have a good bit more bite on initial hit.. and tons more feel, the way i like it anyway

still trying to bleed the brakes.. im on the 27th round of bleeding ever bleeder, i replaced al banhos with bleeder banjos.. everytime i go to bleed again more air comes out, finally the bubbles are getting smaller and the lever is starting to get some stiffness to it..instead of collapsing to my knuckles...i replaced the banjos at the abs pump with bleeders, and air continues to come out.. but less and less , maybe im finally getting somewhere. ugghghghghg so frustrated. next option is uying obdstar to activate the abs pump

1hander said:

next option is uying obdstar to activate the abs pump

Click to expand...

I thought you had one already?

yes sir i DID
yeah another debacle..
i let a "FRIEND" borrow it.. ive never thought in a million years this would go down.. he had a v4 as well, and asked to borrow it, ive known him for 12 years..and he tells me that it was stolen from his garage..yet they took nothing else like his expensive ducati or any tools only my .... was stolen..,,he was in the middle of a divorce and i never let anyone borrow my tools..i gave in... i ran into his X wife about 3 weeks ago and she tells me he sold it ,,,,WTF ,, i confront him he says shes a liar. etc etc etc .. well she gave me the receipt to the pawn shop he sold it to just to prove hes a liar.... there was 1 there but i could not prove it was mine because i did not register it online or keep a receipt, i got the police involved. just on principle.. its a mess and in the end that amount of money to find out whos not a friend..is cheap.. hes X continues to tell me that hes a huge liar and has a gambling problem..and sold her jewelry and wedding ring .. again i was floored because ive known him for so long but i never saw any sigis of either.

so i get to buy another one. thats why i have been struggling with the air in the lines, i broke the bleeder nipple cuz i was pissed about that whole deal and lost my temper..
i used it before to help bleed the brakes and it worked better than my current setup with pressure..but still after a while the brake lever gets really soft. not sure what to do. its soft enough that it wil go all the way to my fingers after a while. and im at the point where i have almost lost all confidence in my ability to just bleed the brakes.
i just cant understand why its so hard to get all the air out

That's a shame. When you first get the OBDStar you have to create an account to get updates etc. Using the device to login would reveal the device being associated to your account. How much does the pawnshop want for it? Can you haggle with them? That has to be cheaper than buying another.

bp_SFV4 said:

That's a shame. When you first get the OBDStar you have to create an account to get updates etc. Using the device to login would reveal the device being associated to your account. How much does the pawnshop want for it? Can you haggle with them? That has to be cheaper than buying another.

Click to expand...

i know, i absolutely hate updates of any kind, on ant device because it always seems to bring more problems.. so i avoid them like the plague. it sounds stupid to say as a grown ass man..but i think im more hurt than anything else, and then i feel shame because i was fooled like that..he was a really good friend i even feel like .... for telling him were not friends anymore, can you beat that..i kind of washed my hands of the whole thing and just wanted distance..

i was going to just buy another but then i decided finally i wanted to try an 800T, maybe its my age or the pain in my back but i wanted a second option for riding , but ill never get rid of v4..so im going to pick up a another bike today. and the conversion process starts all over again LOL, luckily its cable clutch so it will be easier.

so i have some preliminary good news.. i put the original master back on, and preliminary testing and bleeding by hand only shows the problem has been the damn other master cylinders are leaking and putting air into the system. the radial master was able to bleed back to the original feel whivh is still mushy but feels like it used to .. and unlike the other masters even the 2 new ones and the 3 used rebuilt ones...air does not continue to come out of the radial master like it would on the axial masters, im not sure wtf is going on but even with new seals very axial i have continues to introduce air into the system.. so we bled the system to what feels like i could have faith in it..and tomorrow will bleed again by hand, gonna leave it with bands on the lever, i noticed the fluid has alot of tiny air bubbles in it, which turns into big air bubbles, i do not have a vacuum pot so were gonna start witih a fresh batch of brake fluid and continue to do it by hand.. if air stops coming out of the system.. then it was my damn axial masters that were the problem, which is scary because with out an axial i cannot ride it, i have one more axial master on the way used that i will rebuild, and try, if it continues to produce air which once bled it should not.. then my onlyl other choice is a 12 or 1400 dollar dual master cyclinder that a guy on the isle of man makes.. if that does not work im in trouble.

turns out pfm on the isle of man makes the dual master cylinder , and also make a 17mm axial master cylinder iand a thumb brake ..i could try, so this is good news..

also ive been studying abs pump design and the have come to my own conclusion that the reason the brakes feels shiddy to me.. is indeed as you guys have been saying .. the abs pump is the reason...

the abs pump is responsible for the softness of the lever..... the springs inside the pump are what is causing the softness to the lever. so its as good as it gets without changing the surface area ratio by using a larger bore master. ..or getting rid of the pump.

its not morning yet, but i checked the pr16 and its holding still , no change i stiffness of the lever...so, im pretty sure i can call this one a master cylinder problem. that of course was created by me ..unfortunately i have no choice because of my situation....
. but pfm has 3 good options for me ..i just want to try one last rebuilt brembo psc 16 .. i just cant figure out why they are leaking.

if theres is a leak anywhere on the master be it seals, banjo or the reservoir ring seal.. 45psi of pressure pushing on the fluid would absolutely expose that leak, but the only way air gets in to the master is when i actuate the lever it only takes 10 pumps of the lever and air bubbles develop .i can feel the master cylinders pressure start to go away as i pump the lever,,,bores look clean no scarring, no scarring of the pistons , no scratches on the seals (new).. driving me batshit crazy. but putting the pr16 on and it showing results at least is showin me a bit of light at the end of the tunnel

i got another used master in, put new seals in it, check the bore for roundness there is only like .0003 of OOR to it.. not enough to cause a problem, i checked the bores of the other and they are all .0003-.0004 OOR , also not enough to cause a leak... but i checked anyway..

then i used the original lever on the master instead of the pazzo.. which turned out not to be a genuine pazzo.. there is about 1.5,, of pretravel before the pin even hits the back of the piston.. then i put the pazzo on, and if there was slack it was unperceivable by me.. i put the oem brembo lever back on and assembled and started to bleed with the pressure feed setup i made.. until no bubbles came out anywhere.. let it sit for 30 minutes..bled the master again and only minimal bubbles came out on one stroke of the lever.. did the calipers and more air came out of them.. bled at the abs pump tapped with a rubber mallet, and very little came out maybe a .5mm bubble tiny little guy..

came back an hour later...no air from any where and the lever feels pretty close to the pr16 original master..so theres a small window in the weather..
i go for test ride, abs on highest setting, i immediately notice that even though i have lever pressure i have no friction at the disc... i wait for them to heat up HH pads..which they should immediately have friction in them even cold. .. finally i get them hot enough to bite...SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT..after i get them hot the lever collapses again and its on my knuckle with the bike coming to a slow stop..

i get back home.come back out 30 minutes later and the lever is back to what it was before riding...... i start the bleed over again FL more air FR more air... master cylinder-one teeny bubble.. maybe the abs pump let go of some air when i was whackin on the brake lever to get the as to engage..cold road cold tires so it was slippery enough for it to kick in.

i checked this morning and there seems to be no more air coming from anywhere. i think that is at least done with that
i took the pads out to investigate and it looks like i contaminated them with brake fluid.. there were blue hot spots right on the edges then kindo of smearing down the pads..more on the right caliper than left..so i have another set and those go in the trash. and this time im putting the rotors in the mill 4th axis and using a rotor disc hone in the spindle to remove all traces of the old pads or possible contaminate brake pad material embedded on them..

i called pazzo and their part number for the brake levers im using are DB-80 etched oh the pivot block.. i looked this one and i see D-80 ..which they immediately tell me is a convincing fake. so thats why the lever did not have proper end play, idk if that was the problem, but for now the master does not seem to be producing anymore air like it was
big thanks to baggerman for giving that bit of light. i think that may have been the problem, although i want to put the other lever back to see of the air problem comes back..

next step clean rotors, wait for weather

so the master problem was fixed, by letting it sit..and bleeding again the next day...and doing it again and again about 6 times. i did use brake fluid i had put in a vacuum chamber to pull the air out..so the brakes are back at least to as good as they were before and i have not installed the dual master i purchased from the isle of man ...

. but now im purchasing a set of panigale 899 clipons, the aftermarket clipon i used i did not pay attention and they are actually sitting mm lower on the bar centerline and they are 10 degree instead of 3 or 5 degrees like the factory ducati stuff..i measured but its not accurate i get 4.3 so im calling it 5 degrees. using the 899 clipons will raise my hands almost 30mm, which does not seem like alot but it is a massive change in rider position, which is what i need, risers are a no go..so this will be all i can get, but i think it will make all the difference in the world.. just the change in my neck position while riding will be awesome, my neck injury makes it painful right now. so i gotta try something, im not sellin it..and im not lettin it sit. i know it seems like im beating a dead horse but every bike ive ever modded for me to ride goes through many changes before i find the setup that i like and leave..

after ordering the 899 clipons, i decided to sit down for a bit and work out my backup to the backup plan..as it were..
these are 53mm with 4 degree instead of 5 .. hope the 899s work, aluminum is not cheap especially 7075..
you can see where i pushed the bar farther back towards the tube itself, the 1 degree less than the 5deg oem on the 899 ..according to pythagorean theorem gives another 7.5 mm or so of height from where they currently sit with the after market 10 deg clipon ..7.5 is not a bunch but every bit counts for me... and ill be mounting the new double master on them, hope it goes on easily, im hoping not to have to make new brake lines...but my dad use to tell me...son...you can hope in one hand and crap in the other and let me know which one fills up first ...

also i figured out why they made the master bore for the clutch bigger than the brake bore... since this has an adjustable ratio..and the clutch pressure plate itself actually has a longer physical range of motion to disengage completely..the master would need to move more fluid especially if i adjust the ratio to make the clutch easier to pull, if its easier to pull this equates to less piston movement, but with the bigger bore its should still move a sufficient amount of fluid to disengage the clutch. the clutch is thing is no joke im sure sure you guys know that..and i only use my two middle fingers to actuate and hold it right now..not fun especially at the lights.. so a lighter clutch feel would be amazing. this the stoutest clutch ive ever had.. but i get why it has to be that way..

Luckily i didnt need to make my own clipons..the 899s worked great..but now i have another..made a vid to show you guys whats up..maybe one of knows of what im looking for ..

What about...You'd have to combine it with a barb fitting, but that wouldn't be hard.




Or...Too many barbs but that's an easy problem to solve.




Don't use teflon tape. There's a Loctite thread sealant that works with brake fluid.

The first 1 is definitely an option..
Have you used thr second type..witth the swiveling head..im worried that will leak.

i couldn't find this one online so unfortunately its from china and ill have to wait a week or two for it..but i think this ones the ticket

also ordered this one.and i have 3m teflon paste thread sealer
i did find a swivel steel version but im afraid it will leak at a time when its sitting for a while and sit there and piss all over my bike while im not riding it.

i cant remember or find who first suggested the dual master cylinder from PFM. but i owe you a beer or 12.. even though its crazy expensive and ill basically have to relearn a little, i think it will go pretty quickly, it hurt buying this thing but im goad i did and im glad you brought it to my attention. i never though something like that would even exist. THANK YOU SIR

i went ahead and purchased two more options from amazon..that were suggested.. sometimes what looks like it will work from pics just doesnt cuz theres no scale to them. so one of these options should work. gives me something to do to not stay pissed off about my month old new bike is at the dealership waiting for parts again. on top of that i delivered a perfect;y tunning with good battery bike..and they call and tell me the batterys dead i need to purchase a new battery for 200.00 ...well FU.. i said figure it out .. not my problem, i went to pick up my DEAD battery without letting them know i was coming.. get home put it on the charger and it fully charges and load test says 290CA from a 10AH battery is outstanding. the tech did not even try to charge...just charge the customer for a new is the thig to do. tech says theres a draw, but cant tell me where the draw is, had to order a new dash. they have been contradicting themselves alot. its very SUS. but i was in a super good mood when i saw how good the dual master fit. and how easy it was going to be to fit it. crazy how when you cant ride is when you want to the most..the human condition. im gonna try one of the swiveling ones and see if doesnt leak. but it will be the last option.