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DCPanni said:
So what did Yamaha promise Fabio to get him to ride that slow ass GP bike of theirs till 2026? He just signed a new contract with them. I’m guessing lots of money and maybe a V4 next year?
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They did a deal with Ducati to supply motors... I'm struggling with the inability of Yamaha to get power out of the I-4's relative to the V-4's. It isn't just the Desmo stuff. I think the weird Ducati firing order helps from a traction standpoint but doesn't help the exhaust scavenging any. It would seem you would have some power advantages with I-4 exhaust layouts. The rear of the V-4's are always a struggle form an exhaust standpoint. No matter what you do the bends you're forced to use on the rear kill some power. So what's the issue? Maybe they just need some Italian engineers. I wish Suzuki would come back cause it's hard to watch Rins and Mir, who have had some brilliant moments in the past, tuck the front, tuck the front...
 
DCPanni said:
Or perhaps the new owners told Yamaha they want a French guy on a factory bike for a few more years?? Let’s play conspiracy theories.
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VR46 team to ditch Ducati for Yamaha?

Yamaha doing a V4 might not be so wild of an idea considering the R1 is being discontinued. Maybe there’s something in the dev pipeline that has lots of potential
 
baggerman said:
They did a deal with Ducati to supply motors... I'm struggling with the inability of Yamaha to get power out of the I-4's relative to the V-4's. It isn't just the Desmo stuff. I think the weird Ducati firing order helps from a traction standpoint but doesn't help the exhaust scavenging any. It would seem you would have some power advantages with I-4 exhaust layouts. The rear of the V-4's are always a struggle form an exhaust standpoint. No matter what you do the bends you're forced to use on the rear kill some power. So what's the issue? Maybe they just need some Italian engineers. I wish Suzuki would come back cause it's hard to watch Rins and Mir, who have had some brilliant moments in the past, tuck the front, tuck the front...
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The fundamentals are crankshaft layout which favours corner speed vs point and shoot although the lines have been blurred with aero etc, but the Yamaha isnt slow, it just cant match the initial acceleration of the V4's
 
spooky said:
I thought the R1 was only being discontinued for road use in the EU?
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What happens in Europe on the motorcycle front, typically trickles into all markets. Case in point, the R6. Might be able to pick one up as a track-only version like the R6 though. I wonder how the R1 discontinuing will affect WSBK homologation next year?
 
I know the EVbros love lithium and rare earths because it gives the little children in Africa a job down the mines. But me, I love gas and a nice warm planet to ride in.
 
Paul G said:
The fundamentals are crankshaft layout which favours corner speed vs point and shoot although the lines have been blurred with aero etc, but the Yamaha isnt slow, it just cant match the initial acceleration of the V4's
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I get that. But the Yomama's are down 25 HP? The desmo stuff adds power but 8%? The KTMs look like they're close to competitive power. The I-4's have an exhaust layout advantage IMHO so is it an airbox thing? Or are there thermal management issues with the two middle cylinders? You have to be able to package the porting equally. Everybody's engines have enough power to roast the tires in a serious way so once you're managing wheelspin you have pretty much have the ability to have the same drive. Do the V-4's have a traction advantage due to the CG being a little further back? The problem appears to be in the wind anyway and that's a pure HP thing. Maybe it's just the difference between engineering staffs.
 
baggerman said:
I get that. But the Yomama's are down 25 HP? The desmo stuff adds power but 8%? The KTMs look like they're close to competitive power. The I-4's have an exhaust layout advantage IMHO so is it an airbox thing? Or are there thermal management issues with the two middle cylinders? You have to be able to package the porting equally. Everybody's engines have enough power to roast the tires in a serious way so once you're managing wheelspin you have pretty much have the ability to have the same drive. Do the V-4's have a traction advantage due to the CG being a little further back? The problem appears to be in the wind anyway and that's a pure HP thing. Maybe it's just the difference between engineering staffs.
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Where are hp numbers available?

What are the rev limits between the manufacturers?
 
craig bush said:
Where are hp numbers available?

What are the rev limits between the manufacturers?
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Is there any imposed rev limit? The desmo stuff will allow more aggressive cam profiles to be used at high RPM versus any form of spring. I don't think anybody outside of the teams themselves know the HP. Yamaha's 300, Ducati's 325? They're picking up 12 mph on the Yamaha's on some of the long straights. That's 12 mph being added around 200 mph that be pure HP. The V4's would allow a better rod ratio due to the packaging I think. Longer rods help high RPM torque as the TDC dwell and acceleration off TDC is slower so maybe a few HP there for the V4's but I would think the ability to better package the exhaust would offset this on the I-4's.
 
baggerman said:
Is there any imposed rev limit? The desmo stuff will allow more aggressive cam profiles to be used at high RPM versus any form of spring. I don't think anybody outside of the teams themselves know the HP. Yamaha's 300, Ducati's 325? They're picking up 12 mph on the Yamaha's on some of the long straights. That's 12 mph being added around 200 mph that be pure HP. The V4's would allow a better rod ratio due to the packaging I think. Longer rods help high RPM torque as the TDC dwell and acceleration off TDC is slower so maybe a few HP there for the V4's but I would think the ability to better package the exhaust would offset this on the I-4's.
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To my understanding, there’s no rev limit within the regulations.

If no one but the teams know the power numbers, where are you getting Yamaha is down 25hp to Ducati?
 
Everybody uses a V4 except Yamaha and previously Suzuki right? I believe it's at least 25 HP from the terminal velocity on the long straights. If we actually knew the drag coefficients we could calculate it.
 
Think about this way. Drags goes up by the square of the velocity. So to go 200 vs 190 is 20 squared over 19 squared or 400/361= 1.108 or 10.8 percent more power. More like 30 HP.
 

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