New 1299SL pics from Italy. Mechanical. Sorry no rim strips, blinkers or mirrors.

b9009b said:

I'd sell my truck, my 1199 and my R1 and all my giutars to own that SL TJ... Damn... I'd love to see that..

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TJ99 said:

Had dinner with a well known ex-Ducati designer who was telling me some of the bikes he'd wanted to make way back in the day...I said we should write a book as a kind of "graveyard" of fantastic ideas that never got traction, for one (usually political) reason or another. Jaws would drop

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Alpha Male said:

My problem is i only buy bikes with cash and that limits me to what i could afford to buy

I will never buy a bike or anything on finance - in my city there are so many cars and bikes getting repossess because people cant afford to pay for living beyond the means of their expectations.

Maybe i should start looking into buying repossessed toys i will probably have a better chance of getting closer to owning something like the SL hahaha.

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endodoc said:

LOL. I built the bike that TJ 99 just described and was basically laughed off the board by a bunch of "experts" who basically claimed that almost all the parts TJ suggested were subjective as being "better". Gotta love this place. Thanks for validating what I and a few others went out and did and for validating some decision gripes with Ducati TJ.

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topolino said:

Investments are by their very nature meant to provide a tangible return on your money. Motorcycles are inherently and ordinarily a bad choice, unless you are buying a present or future classic, which doubtless the 1299SL will become, due in part to it's price tag and limited numbers, which generate it's exclusivity. It's unlikely to command the sort of prices you see in the existing classic market such as a Brough Superior or a Vincent HRD Black Shadow, but these are bikes that have gained in value through the passage of time as opposed to just their rarity alone. Perhaps in 30, 40 or 50 years from now, the SL will be in the same league, circa £100,000 and up.

Buying a nearly new or used bike is financially a much sounder option for many, as the first owner takes the hit for the initial depreciation on first registration. Market residual values in the UK, usually see a drop to around half of the original purchase cost after three years, then the rate slows down somewhat. With the launch of Ducati's new second-hand warranty scheme, it makes more sense than ever, as there are plenty of low mileage models on showroom floors to be had. Not withstanding the 4.7% increase Ducati are going to slap on existing prices for new bikes in 2017.

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TJ99 said:

As for the validation, well yes and no. I don't think many people would argue that it's impossible to upgrade any parts on the SL, in fact on ANY bike short of a MotoGP prototype.

What you, and most other people cannot do that the OEMs can, is to develop, test, and validate all those parts together as a package. The point you may be missing is that for some people, there is value in that rigorously developed OEM package.

That's true for a "normal" bike, which is why you can upgrade the .... out of something and never recoup your investment when you sell it. And it's doubly true for a collectible/limited/rare bike like the SL. Throw whatever parts you want on it, to a lot of people you've just made it worse.

But, so what? You don't need my or anyone's validation, just do what you want and be happy with it.

If I can offer my $.02 though, I think the reaction you received might be a result of your own approach. From what I have read of your posts, the general tone of your reaction to the 1299 SL was basically, "what an overpriced POS, Ducati didn't even give it x,y, or z, I can build something better for less money, you'd have to be stupid to buy one."

I can't imagine that would come across too well to a new or hopeful owner of the bike, or even somebody just admiring it. And being in the industry myself, I can say that you don't really know what's involved in OEM bike development and are just armchair quarterbacking.

Not saying that you can't or shouldn't criticize the bike, go ahead. But I think that doing it in a way that comes off as less "superior" sounding might get you a better response to your own project.

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TJ99 said:

As for the validation, well yes and no. I don't think many people would argue that it's impossible to upgrade any parts on the SL, in fact on ANY bike short of a MotoGP prototype.

What you, and most other people cannot do that the OEMs can, is to develop, test, and validate all those parts together as a package. The point you may be missing is that for some people, there is value in that rigorously developed OEM package.

That's true for a "normal" bike, which is why you can upgrade the .... out of something and never recoup your investment when you sell it. And it's doubly true for a collectible/limited/rare bike like the SL. Throw whatever parts you want on it, to a lot of people you've just made it worse.

But, so what? You don't need my or anyone's validation, just do what you want and be happy with it.

If I can offer my $.02 though, I think the reaction you received might be a result of your own approach. From what I have read of your posts, the general tone of your reaction to the 1299 SL was basically, "what an overpriced POS, Ducati didn't even give it x,y, or z, I can build something better for less money, you'd have to be stupid to buy one."

I can't imagine that would come across too well to a new or hopeful owner of the bike, or even somebody just admiring it. And being in the industry myself, I can say that you don't really know what's involved in OEM bike development and are just armchair quarterbacking.

Not saying that you can't or shouldn't criticize the bike, go ahead. But I think that doing it in a way that comes off as less "superior" sounding might get you a better response to your own project.

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Chaotic said:

Comparing this bike to any other Panigale in terms of price or performance is ridiculous. 99.9% of the population would put down the EXACT same lap times on a 1299SL that they would on a 1299 base model.

This bike is a collectors item, nothing more, nothing less. Once people realize that and stop trying to compare it to anything, or justify the cost of it vs other bikes, these discussions will get much easier and with less drama. Sure, somebody could buy all of the individual/CF parts on their own and save some money, but then they wouldn't actually have a 1299SL collectors item...they would just have a 1299 with a bunch of cool parts on it. Which means 5-10 years from now, their modded bike wouldn't be worth .... compared to this 1299SL, which will still be worth a lot of money because of what it is...a collectors item.

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endodoc said:

That last post made no sense at all.

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endodoc said:

Other than that, your getting an 1199SL with 100 additional CCs. All the components are identical to the 1199SL. Personally, I would but an 1199 SL and some wheels and a swingarm (if you really have to have that) from BST and call it a day. Your saving 30K plus and your not ever going to know the difference. Smarter yet would be a low mileage R and 70K to play with.

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Zelnik said:

Sure thing. But however how you turn this around,you get assfucked bigtime by Ducati moneywhore. Heard that first service is 2100$ for this bike for example. Nah,bikes should be for workers as they used to be.
Modifying,servicing,building your own bike is the best there is,and Endodoc here for example taking it to pure extreme. You should be on your knee..

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endodoc said:

TJ99 and Gecko. You both make very valid points and I would say that they are points that I did not factor into my original post. I assume way too often that everyone has the independence to not have to factor those points which is of course incorrect. My tone was abrupt again because I was not cognizant of my audience. The ability pay for, organize, build, test, ride and support a custom build really only does one thing. It allows them to get what they want not accept what is given. Its pretty simple. I completely discounted the warranty piece for a couple of reasons. One, technically just about everyone on this board had voided their warranty (flappers, exhaust, canisters etc) then they give me .... about a warranty. Second, all I have heard since I joined this board were tales of incompetency from service dept's and you going to take your (98K out the door) SL to the shop down the street? So no I didn't place too much emphasis on the warranty aspect. The 1299SL is an awesome motorcycle, arguably the most advanced sport bike on the planet I don't think i ever said it wasn't. Would I drop 98K and change on it, no fricken way but that again is because I know what it is and its not what I personally want and I have the ability to make what I do want and support it. Hopefully 2017 will bring this freedom to more individuals. Were working on something now.

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endodoc said:

You my friend have just hit the proverbial nail on the head. Its all about psychology. The difference between a so called "Hater" (slang definition) and a decision based on a more stringent set of factors is money. Plain and simple. If you ridicule something such as "I wouldn't buy that thing" and your not in a position financially to do so if you did like it then your "opinion" will always garner a potential "hater" response even if you truly are not interested in the bike. I hear that .... all day. A 200k super car pulls up and some jack wagon who makes 25K a year driving an old Celica looks over and says "I wouldn't buy that, the 918 is better, that guy is an idiot". Real simple. I obviously have the money to buy a 1299SL so when I chose to build my own bikes instead you can bet your ass that its what i wanted to do and for many reasons stated. From tearing these things down and really getting to know the bikes and getting access to factory parts and what not I know what the value is to me building vs buying. If you don't have the money or skill sets or intimate knowledge that goes into what your buying then it is a fairly impossible task to evaluate one way or the other.You accept what they sell or you don't buy it. For me and just for me, knowing what I know and having the resources to do what I can do logically dictated that I was not going to interested in the 1299SL. If on the other hand I was strictly a rider and was not interested in ever touching the bike I personally would have bought a 1299SL. Its that simple

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