New Panigale V4 is ugly?

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Is the New Panigale ugly?

  • I like the older look more

  • I like the new design best

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ducfan69 said:
I just like the sound of the dry clutch, but can't say that even on track I felt a difference between my S wet and R dry clutches. Am I ........, or do y'all feel a difference?
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No idea as I’ve only used the dry clutch on track, but I like the idea of clutch material not going into the oil, which I believe is one advantage (happy to be corrected). I’ve done quite a bit of time between oil changes on track and the oil always comes out as clear as it was when I put it in.

If there’s zero advantage then I’d be happy to save the money required to add a dry clutch to the new V4 if I get one.
 
ducfan69 said:
I just like the sound of the dry clutch, but can't say that even on track I felt a difference between my S wet and R dry clutches. Am I ........, or is there a performance difference on track that y'all are wanting by changing an S clutch to dry?
Click to expand...

You’re not the ....... Those changing out wet clutches for dry are the ........ A dry clutch has so many more downsides that a wet clutch is ideal for a street or track bike. For a race bike, go full ham with the dry.

But these numpties swapping out to dry clutches are just the opitome of poseur. Dry clutch might as well be a clear clutch cover
 
ducfan69 said:
I just like the sound of the dry clutch, but can't say that even on track I felt a difference between my S wet and R dry clutches. Am I ........, or is there a performance difference on track that y'all are wanting by changing an S clutch to dry?
Click to expand...

The new dry clutch they developed a year or two ago is a several pounds lighter in the rotating assembly, that’s huge. And less total oil so a bit more weight savings there. Marginal gains on it having a bit less parasitic loss to engine power.
 
SuperDomestique said:
You’re not the ....... Those changing out wet clutches for dry are the ........ A dry clutch has so many more downsides that a wet clutch is ideal for a street or track bike. For a race bike, go full ham with the dry.

But these numpties swapping out to dry clutches are just the opitome of poseur. Dry clutch might as well be a clear clutch cover
Click to expand...

Man I’m not one of the guys here that thinks EVERYTHING you say is idiotic, or hypocritical…but this post is 😂😂😂

A Pani without a dry clutch is like…umm, a Pani without a double sided swingarm😀

Weren’t you the one going on and on about not having a double sided swingarm?

Also, it’s like 2 kilo’s lighter in rotating mass that dry clutch.
 
Steven31371 said:
Man I’m not one of the guys here that thinks EVERYTHING you say is idiotic, or hypocritical…but this post is 😂😂😂

A Pani without a dry clutch is like…umm, a Pani without a double sided swingarm😀

Weren’t you the one going on and on about not having a double sided swingarm?

Also, it’s like 2 kilo’s lighter in rotating mass that dry clutch.
Click to expand...

If you think what I say is idiotic or hypocritical, that’s on you. Its surprising that most of the forum can’t follow along.

I think you’ve got your wires crossed. Never once advocated for DSSA.

And 1% weight reduction at the crank is not going to do ..... That’s the whole purpose of the counter-rotating crank.

Just keep it simple. I’ll give you the wheels (you’ll probably get a 3-4% weight reduction there). But all you really need for a good any bike is good suspension, tires, and ergos. The rest is up to you.
 
SuperDomestique said:
If you think what I say is idiotic or hypocritical, that’s on you. Its surprising that most of the forum can’t follow along.

I think you’ve got your wires crossed. Never once advocated for DSSA.

And 1% weight reduction at the crank is not going to do ..... That’s the whole purpose of the counter-rotating crank.

Just keep it simple. I’ll give you the wheels (you’ll probably get a 3-4% weight reduction there). But all you really need for a good any bike is good suspension, tires, and ergos, and the magical 100mm trail don't forget the magical number!!!!:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


SuperDomestique said:
The rest is up to you.
Click to expand...
 
I agree with SD on this, wet clutches are more practical for the street and trackday rider. Racing is another story but if you want a dry clutch, go for it but they have downsides in terms of extra maintenance..Lets look at it practically for a moment, the key advantages are easy replacement of plates and springs, the slipper function is better, there is less rotating mass and no plate debris in the oil. The downsides are that the unit is a wear item and if you run it hard you will be replacing plates and baskets with some regularity, they are also noisy which may or my not be a feature. Getting back to the why, there is no reason whatsoever to put a dry clutch on a V4 Panigale if you want to cut fast laps at a trackday but it does look and sound very cool.
 
Paul G said:
I agree with SD on this, wet clutches are more practical for the street and trackday rider. Racing is another story but if you want a dry clutch, go for it but they have downsides in terms of extra maintenance..Lets look at it practically for a moment, the key advantages are easy replacement of plates and springs, the slipper function is better, there is less rotating mass and no plate debris in the oil. The downsides are that the unit is a wear item and if you run it hard you will be replacing plates and baskets with some regularity, they are also noisy which may or my not be a feature. Getting back to the why, there is no reason whatsoever to put a dry clutch on a V4 Panigale if you want to cut fast laps at a trackday but it does look and sound very cool.
Click to expand...

I thought a clutch was a wear item regardless of whether it’s wet or dry…

Easier maintenance, no debris in the oil that lubricates the engine (this sounds like it’s a big one?), better slipper function and less rotating mass seems to be an overwhelming argument in favour of them?
 
the bike is wear item, its just how much maintenance you want to do and money you want to spend
 
I change my own clutch plates, it’s a pretty simple job that doesn’t take too long with the dry clutch. Easier to do with a dry clutch versus wet clutch…or at least it’s less messing lol
 
Dry clutch replacement is 2-3k mi with frequent checks and reshimming vs 15k+ mi with basically no maintenance on a wet one. Also, considering a V4 motor won't make it past 15k mi of track use basically the clutch is maintenance free
 
The dry/wet debate among Ducati enthusiasts is less prevalent that it used to be, maybe there is a newer crew riding mosty wet clutch bikes? Dry was a brand signature with the rattle and character but times have changed and Ducati put the dry clutch where it belongs, on the up market "race" versions. The rest of the sportsbike world uses wet on the road with no ill effect, but if you want that special sound and feeling its in the catalogue for you. Rick had the R and base, he commented that he preferred the wet even for racing so I guess its all personal taste.
 
If I had a wet clutch I’d be changing the oil every track day, whereas with the dry I do it every other track day. But for me the biggie is the 4+ lbs reduction in rotating mass with no parasitic loss. Of all the mods I’ve done to Ducati’s the thing that makes the biggest difference is reducing rotating mass on the bike. The engine itself helps move the bike from side to side like a lightweight bike…reduce rotating mass considerably and you accentuate the benefits of the engine in handling…turns up the volume on it so to speak…also 4 pound less rotating mass in the engine helps an engine spin up faster…makes it livelier
 
Steven31371 said:
If I had a wet clutch I’d be changing the oil every track day, whereas with the dry I do it every other track day. But for me the biggie is the 4+ lbs reduction in rotating mass with no parasitic loss. Of all the mods I’ve done to Ducati’s the thing that makes the biggest difference is reducing rotating mass on the bike. The engine itself helps move the bike from side to side like a lightweight bike…reduce rotating mass considerably and you accentuate the benefits of the engine in handling…turns up the volume on it so to speak…also 4 pound less rotating mass in the engine helps an engine spin up faster…makes it livelier
Click to expand...

You’ve weighed the dry clutch basket and plates and it’s 4 lbs lighter than the wet clutch basket with plates? Or is this the from the different case, no clutch cover, and less oil?

The smaller clutch will also need more maintenance
 
spooky said:
No idea as I’ve only used the dry clutch on track, but I like the idea of clutch material not going into the oil, which I believe is one advantage (happy to be corrected). I’ve done quite a bit of time between oil changes on track and the oil always comes out as clear as it was when I put it in.

If there’s zero advantage then I’d be happy to save the money required to add a dry clutch to the new V4 if I get one.
Click to expand...

The dry slippers are better for track use on the twins. I'm not surprised that no one can feel any real difference on the V4. Stock wet clutch is pretty good. As Steven says biggest advantage less weight.
 
SuperDomestique said:
You’ve weighed the dry clutch basket and plates and it’s 4 lbs lighter than the wet clutch basket with plates? Or is this the from the different case, no clutch cover, and less oil?

The smaller clutch will also need more maintenance
Click to expand...

Don’t need to weigh it, I looked at the release notes from Ducati when they came out with the new dry clutch a year or so ago. Was going to buy one and replace the old heavier dry clutch on my bike with it but at the time they wanted like $5k for the lighter clutch assembly, you could not buy it as a kit, you had to go to the parts ditch and order each part separately. The wet clutch still uses the older assembly. The new dry clutch is about 4 pounds lighter just in the rotating parts, i.e. the clutch plates and basket. Any other weight loss from having a different case over top of it and less oil to carry around is weight savings on top of the rotating assembly.
 
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Steven31371 said:
Don’t need to weigh it, I looked at the release notes from Ducati when they came out with the new dry clutch a year or so ago. Was going to buy one and replace the old heavier dry clutch on my bike with it but at the time they wanted like $5k for the lighter clutch assembly, you could not buy it as a kit, you had to go to the parts ditch and order each part separately. The wet clutch still uses the older assembly. The new dry clutch is about 4 pounds lighter just in the rotating parts, i.e. the clutch plates and basket. Any other weight loss from having a different case over top of it and less oil to carry around is weight savings on top of the rotating assembly.
Click to expand...

This is getting into the weeds but…

The 23+ V4R clutch is 1.7 lbs (not 4 lbs) lighter than the previous gen R clutch according to Ducati marketing. Or are you saying the new R dry clutch assembly is 4 lbs lighter than a wet clutch assembly? Did you weigh your wet clutch vs the old dry clutch when you installed it? Isn’t your V4 a Foggy and has a dry clutch already installed from factory?

IMG_1959.jpeg

Oddly, the R oil capacity is 3.8 L vs the 1103 motors 3.4 or about 0.9 lbs of oil
 
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