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If you are a novice and going to race you just have to get rid of the abs. Buy a 400 to toss away. The use of abs will never allow you to learn to feel when things are going awry. These are some seriously competent devices and expensive to toss away so the absolute wrong thing to learn skills on. All of this electronics is robbing novices of some basic needed skills. Personally I think the ability to catch highsides is really important for ones longterm survival. Anyone learning to ride with the modern yaw and traction control stuff will never learn to do this. The electronics is not going to always save you. Hard (impossible?) to lock up a modern front in a straight line, if you transferred weight to the front appropriately. Toss you over the bars but lock up? Well I've never tried a shinko touring front. Maximum braking is when all the weight is on the front with the rear 1/8 inch in the air. The max straight line braking thing becomes a muscle memory thing after awhile front feels mushy back wags.

Don't underestimate how strong the brakes are on the V4! It's only happened once, but I locked the front, in a straight line, on Dunlop slicks, in Spain earlier this year. Tyres were fully up to temp. Handlebars snapped sideways in the blink of an eye, and fortunately snapped back even quicker. Definitely lifted the heart rate! Kept my line too 👌
Front end is amazing on the V4.
 
Sourcing all the ancillary pieces of kit has been a challenge, but I’m told it’s coming together. Hopefully in the next few months. 🤞

Same with the sbk fuel tank, subframe, and seat.

Any thoughts on that Nolan Lamkin video - notice how TC is active immediately on throttle application?

Re the Lamkin vid. I don't know much about the BM electronics, so not sure what's going on, tc or cylinder deactivation. Perhaps Bruce knows more?

Hope all the bits come through! Has he swapped an engine case? Or, is he hoping to achieve with different bolts and rearsets etc?
 
Don't underestimate how strong the brakes are on the V4! It's only happened once, but I locked the front, in a straight line, on Dunlop slicks, in Spain earlier this year. Tyres were fully up to temp. Handlebars snapped sideways in the blink of an eye, and fortunately snapped back even quicker. Definitely lifted the heart rate! Kept my line too 👌
Front end is amazing on the V4.

For some reason, you only get to do this once. It’s like the gods have taken mercy on you. The next time, you usually find yourself on the deck 😳
 
I agree the brakes are awesome (all the 330 stuff is simply the best) but i've never locked up the front after appropriately transferring weight, at least not in the last 30 years. I bet you hit a snotty patch. Or your application was a little too sudden or a little of both. The first time I put the bike on the front stand I was amazed on how much weight is on the front. And the counter rotating crank really makes a difference at speed. Easiest bike to ride fast as delivered by the factory I've ever owned.
 
I agree the brakes are awesome (all the 330 stuff is simply the best) but i've never locked up the front after appropriately transferring weight, at least not in the last 30 years. I bet you hit a snotty patch. Or your application was a little too sudden or a little of both. The first time I put the bike on the front stand I was amazed on how much weight is on the front. And the counter rotating crank really makes a difference at speed. Easiest bike to ride fast as delivered by the factory I've ever owned.

Or, maybe I was just braking a little harder than you ever have in 30yrs?

100%, the counter rotating crankshaft makes a big difference to how much easier it is to turn the bike 👌
 
I was more kind of referring to the question about novice rider's and ABS and again this is just my opinion.

Of course. And I’m not intending sarcasm or argument - I agree with you entirely. :)

That’s why I find the video so surprising - he seems to open the throttle enough to activate tc immediately, but I hadn’t considered the sound might have something to do with cylinder deactivation. Either way though, he seems to be be aggressive with throttle application right from apex.
 
Or, maybe I was just braking a little harder than you ever have in 30yrs?
The nice thing about the brakes on a Pani with ABS is that you can float the rear pretty easily, I do it all the time for the last part of coming to a stop just to practice control and get comfortable with the wobbly feeling. Havent locked them yet but trust that I will be upright before and after :) Also I would imagine that since you are riding fast that you have a stiffer front that most of us therefore less stoppie and more load on the contact patch.
 
Prior to Friday, I was fully satisfied with the stock brake system on my '19 V4. Like so satisfied that I didn't care to hear anything about brake system mods, ha. I run Vesrah XX but all else is stock. I liked plenty the feel and lever play and think my straight line and trail braking are pretty good compared to my amateur class peers. But on Friday, I got to ride a very fast expert racer's dialed-in V4, and that was a game changer for me. Leaving the paddock at 10 mph, I about lifted the rear with the first grazing touch of brakes. Oh my, this is how it is? Hmm, okay, interesting. :) After a lap or two, I was adjusted, and after two more, I was pushing it, and oh my gosh, did I love it. Way less strain on the hand and it felt more precise, despite that seeming counter-intuitive to me somehow. My assessment was that his system was (way) less effort, more efficient, more powerful, and more precise. I'm digging in now and trying to make the jump to expert class and will be bypassing ABS and copying the rest of his brake system shortly. The test ride converted this skeptic. (I now consider the brakes as part of the ergonomic setup, which I am starting to take seriously too).
 
Prior to Friday, I was fully satisfied with the stock brake system on my '19 V4. Like so satisfied that I didn't care to hear anything about brake system mods, ha. I run Vesrah XX but all else is stock. I liked plenty the feel and lever play and think my straight line and trail braking are pretty good compared to my amateur class peers. But on Friday, I got to ride a very fast expert racer's dialed-in V4, and that was a game changer for me. Leaving the paddock at 10 mph, I about lifted the rear with the first grazing touch of brakes. Oh my, this is how it is? Hmm, okay, interesting. :) After a lap or two, I was adjusted, and after two more, I was pushing it, and oh my gosh, did I love it. Way less strain on the hand and it felt more precise, despite that seeming counter-intuitive to me somehow. My assessment was that his system was (way) less effort, more efficient, more powerful, and more precise. I'm digging in now and trying to make the jump to expert class and will be bypassing ABS and copying the rest of his brake system shortly. The test ride converted this skeptic. (I now consider the brakes as part of the ergonomic setup, which I am starting to take seriously too).

Brakes were the very 1st thing I worked on and thought I had it dialed in perfectly for me with Corsa Corta MC, GP4 MS caliper, Sicom Rotors and pads…but last weekend I switched to steel rotors and Z04 pads…took me all day to get use to them but I think I’ll keep them for awhile, or just switch the pads to those Vesrah XX which I have on my Gixxer and really like.

The Z04 pads clamp harder than the VESRAHS but the VESRAHS are easier to modulate, with practice running them I think ultimately the Z04’s are are better pad than the Vesrah for just pure stopping power, but also less forgiving.

What’s the setup your buddy is using, that you are switching to?
 
I've been wondering about the sicom rotors. The braketech ceramic matrix ones allegedly were better especially initial bite. I call the braketech guy awhile ago to ask if anymore were going to be made and he said that his supplier (a defense company Gruman?) was no longer interested due to the low volumes. From what I've read about the sicoms you get less brake torque and poor initial bite and they're seriously expensive. But they're so much lighter. So what's been your experience with them? I like the race galfers really linear but haven't tried the versahs.
 
I've been wondering about the sicom rotors. The braketech ceramic matrix ones allegedly were better especially initial bite. I call the braketech guy awhile ago to ask if anymore were going to be made and he said that his supplier (a defense company Gruman?) was no longer interested due to the low volumes. From what I've read about the sicoms you get less brake torque and poor initial bite and they're seriously expensive. But they're so much lighter. So what's been your experience with them? I like the race galfers really linear but haven't tried the versahs.

I actually love the Sicom setup, 5 pounds of rotating mass removed from just the front end over steel rotors, which definately makes the whole bike feel more alive and nimble. Compared to steel rotors with the Z04 pads that have a much more progressive initial bite but they ramp up quick, I would not run the Sicoms at track without also having a really good brake MC on the bike at a minimum, and an upgraded caliper too at best, the upgraded Brake MC helps mitigate the progressiveness of the initial bite with the Sicom setup and makes the overall brake torque or stopping power higher with them. It’s a very forgiving system that allows for easy modulation and control especially on trail braking.

The Z04 with steel rotors can be modulated well and trail brake well, but require a more finessed touch and are less forgiving of little rider input errors, the overall stopping power is higher, as is initial bite, but if you over due it just a little bit with the lever you muck the corner, they require a much finer touch from the rider inputs on the lever. Overall they are more challenging for the rider to finesse but very rewarding when you get it right, if maximum stopping power is paramount they are better than the Sicom rotors and pads.

But the Sicom still stop VERY VERY good, are a more forgiving pad/rotor setup, and the MUCH lower rotating mass makes the bike feel more alive and controllable especially through switchbacks and chicains.

I’m 6 of one and half dozen of the other on whether to go back to the Sicom setup or stay with the Steel rotors and Z04’s, they are just so different they are hard to compare point by point, too much ‘apples and oranges’ versus comparing apples to apples.

it took me all day to get the feel of the bike back last track day when I switched from CF wheels with a 120 front tire and the Sicom rotors/pads to the Magnesium wheels with a 125 front tire and steel rotors with Z04 pads, felt so different that I didn’t feel comfortable on the bike until the last session of the day, and even then my best lap was 4 seconds slower than my best lap with the Sicom setup…but that’s largely due to my timing being off on corner entry, I was constantly over braking with the Z04 setup and entering the corner slower than I do with the Sicom setup, part of that is that I’m just more comfortable trail braking the Sicom setup versus the Z04 setup, and the bike is more flickable with the Sicom setup. BUT, a lot of that is just a function of getting used to the Z04 with more laps on them.

One final factor that’s not likely to be a big issue now but could be down the road, with the Sicom rotors and pads you will NEVER have to worry about brake fade, they actually get slightly better the hotter they get, with the Z04 setup on steel rotors brake fade will happen eventually.

For now I’m going to transfer my steel rotors over to my CF wheels and run the Z04 pads for a few track days, to see if I can get as comfortable with them as I am with the Sicom stuff…if so then I’ll use them moving forward, because while they are more challenging to use well, and less forgiving if you get it a little bit wrong, they are more rewarding when you get it just right.

I still torn though, because the combination of CF wheels and the Sicom rotors makes the bike feel like a 600 cc bike in the corners.
 
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If the braking distance is shorter with steel but you can carry more speed in fast transitions with the sicoms. Nice problem to have. The carbon fiber wheels with the sicoms must be so flickable. Who makes the lightest front slick?
 
Still no further news on product testing?

Hey McEngineer, tested it yesterday! It was very good, but a couple small glitches which require a bit more finessing.

As Deussen says, it's a very complicated piece of the electronics suite, the ABS pump. So, it's quite the task for a small company to resolve.

I think the tip over switch is ready, but the manufacturer can't source the circuit board materials!

I find the tip over switch (or lack of) the most irritating. The bike has all the necessary sensors (used for ABS and TC). It has tilt sensors, 6-axis IMU. You'd think, it just needs basic programming in the ECU or Black Box thing? You know, if lean angle > 50⁰ and front wheel speed < 10kmh, then cut fuel pump? Or, something along those lines 😬🤔😕
 

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