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If you look at the front phonic ring on a 1098R it has 6 pins for the hall sensor that's new information every 60 degrees, and I thought going to the then BSD add on tc kit with 8 pins was modern...every 45 degrees..Screenshot 2023-03-26 at 17.17.55.png

Now look at the front ring from a v4 it has 48 teeth so new information every 7.5 degrees...Screenshot 2023-03-26 at 17.15.26.png

the systems are getting more and more sensitive and efficient.
 
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Most of the times when the ABS intervenes I hardly notice it, or at least it intervenes in a way that you expect so it’s not an issue.

But very intermittently, when the parameters are just right, I get a feeling of: “Woe, my brakes didn’t feel right!”

It’s not a feeling of pulsing that’s noticeable, it’s almost like the lever feels more squishy than normal and the ramp up from progressive initial bite to full brake power doesn’t feel as smooth and linear, or at least the curve upward of brake pressure doesn’t feel like what your use to. It’s not huge, but just enough that it surprises you in a moment where you really don’t want to be surprised by your brakes feeling different and is a slight distraction that can take you out of the moment and break your concentration a bit.

It’s rare but precisely because it doesn’t happen all the time it surprises you.

It’s entirely possible that the abs system is pulsing in that moment, and that it’s just pulsing so subtly that it doesn’t FEEL like pulsing, it just feels like a squishier lever and a different curve upward of friction coefficient in the ramp up of stopping power as you squeeze the lever.

Yes compared to older systems it's leaps better for sure. Mostly I never notice it, the brakes are really pretty good.
The incident I refereed to was pretty extreme braking hitting some washboard bumps. The lever felt out of my control, it was not remotely subtle. It was in 2021, maybe the setting was even at 3. Last year I set it to 2, then 1 on the track.
 
Marquez could have done with ABS on the weekend :p

Heres an interesting comment on ABS;

"Anti-lock Braking Systems (ABS) are NOT designed to help you stop faster!

Despite the general impression that ABS equipped vehicles can stop faster than those without, in general this is not true. ABS is primarily intended to help prevent the loss of control (caused by locked brakes), not to in some magical way, make the brakes more effective at stopping the vehicle.

The reason ABS is not particularly effective in terms of braking ability on dry surfaces is that it is generally pretty easy to avoid locking the brakes anyway. So, I suppose, there are those that will argue that ABS helps you stop faster on slippery surfaces even if not on dry ones.

In fact that is not always true either. There are tests that show improved stopping performance (for cars and trucks) on WET surfaces, where drivers are more apt to overuse their brakes to the point of locking them, but there are several other studies that demonstrate absolutely convincingly that braking distances increase with ABS over non-ABS equipped vehicles when riding on loose gravel surfaces. (This, because gravel piles up and tends to create a ‘dam’ in front of a locked wheel where a rolling wheel tends to ride up and over a much smaller ‘dam’.)

But ‘maintaining control’ is a good thing by itself, right? Surely that is good enough reason to require every vehicle to have ABS equipped brakes, right? Nope.

In February of 1996 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced it had dropped the safety standard requirement for anti-lock brake systems on all new cars.

They did so because studies showed a 0% decrease in the overall number of accidents when comparing ABS equipped cars against those without ABS, AND because these studies showed a 40% increase in single vehicle run-off-the-road accidents with ABS equipped cars. (Apparently your odds of getting into an accident if you lock your brakes in a car is less than if you do not – implying that if you lock them you will likely simply slide in the direction you were moving, but if you maintain some measure of (impaired) control you are likely to throw the vehicle into a path that takes you off the road.)

I think ABS makes sense for a cage, and maybe more sense for an 18-wheeler, but is of marginal value on a motorcycle EXCEPT IN THE EVENT THAT YOU ARE PRONE TO PANIC AND OVERUSE YOUR BRAKES (in which case ABS can easily save your life!). It affects stopping distance insignificantly. What it is intended to do is help maintain control if you ride over surfaces that provide uneven traction. A cage could hit a patch with just one tyre, or just the tyres on one side, and braking and control could easily be lost as a result. If you hit gravel with a motorcycle it will invariably be with both tyres. Meanwhile, a slide is a slide is a slide. Why do you think ABS should be turned off when riding on dirt?

On the other hand, if your bike is equipped with ABS you do not have to be as skilful with your brakes and if you want to eliminate the chance of locking either your front or rear wheels, ABS is just the ticket for you. (I think working at making your braking skills as good as possible is a better strategy for almost anybody.)

One other thing, you might consider ABS as a form of insurance. If price is not an issue, and even if you are not totally convinced that ABS will save your life someday, it might be worth it to you to have ABS on your bike."

Obviously, these are just my opinions on the matter. I do not want to leave you with the impression that I’m recommending against having ABS. Instead, I’d prefer you made that decision based on being informed and having realistic expectations.
 
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this is an older comment, probably from the early days of pulsing abs where the lever vibrated, things have moved on but if ABS was superior at stopping on a track then racers would use it
 
If it is true in 1996 NHTSA dropped the ABS mandate, in 2011 or 2012 they mandated stability controls systems which includes ABS and traction control.

I don't know what the entire source text for what Paul G posted was, or the date it was written, there are newer articles which refute the stopping distance thing.
 
If it is true in 1996 NHTSA dropped the ABS mandate, in 2011 or 2012 they mandated stability controls systems which includes ABS and traction control.

I don't know what the entire source text for what Paul G posted was, or the date it was written, there are newer articles which refute the stopping distance thing.

Yeah!

This debate is also heavily dependant on the vehicles in question and the ability of the person operating them.

The average person will most likely achieve better braking performance with ABS than without in most cases.

A skilled person might do better without ABS in a high performance vehicle with sticky tires but the same person in a pickup truck will likely see those chances reduced.
 
If we're purely talking collision avoidance, steering is more effective than braking...generally. Under emergency stopping conditions steering remains with ABS intervention.

No matter what, I'm WAY better off with ABS, DTC, DWC, etc enabled, be it my SUV or Panigale. I have turned off traction control on the SUV when driving in the snow though.

I like how on the 2022+ bikes they changed the dash to show which aid was being activated. I wonder with data logging if you can see how much it, be it ABS or DTC, was intervening.
 
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This is a really interesting topic and i can relate to both sides of the argument... btw i have no idea how it became one but this seems to be a recurring theme around here 😂

I think that ABS differs from traction control in a way that's difficult for me to describe right now. Having had some experience with car/kart racing I recognize the advantages of no ABS, simply put it's control and predictability which equates to speed. Traction control is much easier to rely on for some reason, perhaps because of the way it intervenes and the effects of those interventions or lack thereof on racing line.

This may be the reason why ABS isn't used in top motorsport but a definitive answer is probably a google search away 😂 so now I have some reading to do in my free time lol
 
The ABS system on our bikes is integrated into every electronic nannie…so it’s not just about avoiding a lock up…
 
I have also ridden for years without ABS. My issue with it is if you're in a situation like you've found a seriously decreasing radius corner and need to trail in hard to keep you in the your lane, you know one of those oh .... moments and the abs then intervenes and you run wide. Not good. So in dry situations I too would like to turn it off. But for the rain...
 

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