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andyb said:

you mean if you looked you could probably see it from 1/2 mile away....perhaps it moves really quickly?

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You’re assuming there was line of sight

Well what I can assume is the tanker didn't just land from space... so it must of come out from somewhere. Even if I couldn't see the tanker I would be able to see the somewhere. The observation links that say I can't see behind that but there are street signs, traffic lights or any other information that would make make me think of a 'what if'.

In the UK some call the person pulling out a smidsy, sorry mate I didn't see you. I say you make your own luck! Do it to them before they do it to you. No point in lying in a hospital bed shouting it was my right of way!!!

+1 I'd like to try experiment with it truly OFF / ON as well. I rode 46 years without ABS, in varying conditions.
More anecdotal evidence:
ABS level 2: On track, down the straight +280KPH, hit some small F1 ripples straight up 0 lean angle in the braking zone ABS dropping brake power to ~10% for a good 30-40 meters of shitting myself. Then it popped back on, felt like I was wrestling a snake under the lever. Crazy feeling. Lap blown, went way wide.
0 ABS on my 848 with no electronic assists of any kind. Same thing maybe at 220 -240KPH many times... a little tire chirping and continued my day.

I don't know how many times ABS has saved my ass on the street integrated with all the other systems on the V4S it's pretty amazing. I'm a fan! But it ain't perfect yet.
I'm certainly not the trail braking master, but feel seems pretty critical. They need to work out the feel IMHO.
I don't know why 3-2-1-0 wouldn't be good.

Vbreeze said:

+1 I'd like to try experiment with it truly OFF / ON as well. I rode 46 years without ABS, in varying conditions.
More anecdotal evidence:
ABS level 2: On track, down the straight +280KPH, hit some small F1 ripples straight up 0 lean angle in the braking zone ABS dropping brake power to ~10% for a good 30-40 meters of shitting myself. Then it popped back on, felt like I was wrestling a snake under the lever. Crazy feeling. Lap blown, went way wide.
0 ABS on my 848 with no electronic assists of any kind. Same thing maybe at 220 -240KPH many times... a little tire chirping and continued my day.

I don't know how many times ABS has saved my ass on the street integrated with all the other systems on the V4S it's pretty amazing. I'm a fan! But it ain't perfect yet.
I'm certainly not the trail braking master, but feel seems pretty critical. They need to work out the feel IMHO.
I don't know why 3-2-1-0 wouldn't be good.

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Absolutely. I understand the negative of 3-2-1-0 on road. Riders accidentally dropping into N coming in to junctions etc.
So, a lever, to lock out N, makes sense.

But, on track, if in first, I've never tried to get a lower gear. But have, on many occasions, experienced hitting N instead of first. And, we don't need a lever atm, to select N. So....what's the big deal?

RickD996 said:

Absolutely. I understand the negative of 3-2-1-0 on road. Riders accidentally dropping into N coming in to junctions etc.
So, a lever, to lock out N, makes sense.

But, on track, if in first, I've never tried to get a lower gear. But have, on many occasions, experienced hitting N instead of first. And, we don't need a lever atm, to select N. So....what's the big deal?

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I may be wrong, but I believe he was referring to ABS levels 3, 2, 1 and 0, where the latter would be completely turned off.

Taz said:

I may be wrong, but I believe he was referring to ABS levels 3, 2, 1 and 0, where the latter would be completely turned off.

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Haha, makes more sense!

andyb said:

most of these 'all of a sudden incidents' come down to poor observation and planning...... how big was the tanker..

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Andy got me. I saw the tanker and accelerated at it to spice things up

SuperDomestique said:

Andy got me. I saw the tanker and accelerated at it to spice things up

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Only way to really test the ABS

SuperDomestique said:

Andy got me. I saw the tanker and accelerated at it to spice things up

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nah, your original post tells enough about your level of riding... well done!

RickD996 said:

Haha, makes more sense!

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only getting half the picture?...

andyb said:

only getting half the picture?...

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Never a day of rest for our good friend Andy

Fry said:

I've had front ABS intervene a couple of time during amateur races when I was pushing very hard: 2019 V4 with Race Evo2, SC2 front, good grip conditions. At the time, I felt that the system had saved me from crashing. The intervention did run me wide and cost me time but that was better than a crash in my mind. Since then, I have improved my riding and bike setup and am starting to believe the front tire can handle more cornering load (if applied smoothly and correctly) and that perhaps the ABS system will limit a rider once he's past a certain point. The fastest guy I know personally on a V4 has his ABS bypassed and says it's a must-have modification, for "feel" more than avoiding intervention.

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There was a post Rick made that stood out to me about ABS.

He talked about how in certain conditions the brake feel and stability of the bike will just feel different, a momentary feeling of a kind of instability, almost like a feeling of surprise inconsistency on the braking.

As soon as he described that recognized it, though it’s rare there have been a few times where the brake feel and front end stability just felt off, squishier than normal with an odd inconsistency to what I’m used to….I think that’s abs interviewing in a weird way after reading Rick’s post.

For now I think overall the abs is more helpful than intrusive overall for me, but as I progress I can see wanting to get rid of it.

Steven31371 said:

There was a post Rick made that stood out to me about ABS.

He talked about how in certain conditions the brake feel and stability of the bike will just feel different, a momentary feeling of a kind of instability, almost like a feeling of surprise inconsistency on the braking.

As soon as he described that recognized it, though it’s rare there have been a few times where the brake feel and front end stability just felt off, squishier than normal with an odd inconsistency to what I’m used to….I think that’s abs interviewing in a weird way after reading Rick’s post.

For now I think overall the abs is more helpful than intrusive overall for me, but as I progress I can see wanting to get rid of it.

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Cool description. Brought ideas to mind.
It would be way better on the track if it was just a linear adjustment with a highly predictable feel and control. The unpredictable pulsing taking over control is the aspect that sucks, if that wasn’t blindingly obvious before.

‘just saying, if you didn’t like downforce wings before, try 341kph to 105kph down a big hill before a turn. Ha ha ha

It is extremely difficult to make an ABS system predictable (which is a subjective term in itself).

Modern ABS relies on various algorithms and logic computing so it isn't a matter of simply reducing intervention, it's a bit more complex.

The same goes for traction control which is probably why some GP riders weren't too fond of it's introduction.

Vbreeze said:

Cool description. Brought ideas to mind.
It would be way better on the track if it was just a linear adjustment with a highly predictable feel and control. The unpredictable pulsing taking over control is the aspect that sucks, if that wasn’t blindingly obvious before.

‘just saying, if you didn’t like downforce wings before, try 341kph to 105kph down a big hill before a turn. Ha ha ha
View attachment 48950

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The ABS on my V4R, and V4 22, doesn't pulse. It is almost perfect. Needs a little calibration for slicks

Vbreeze said:

Cool description. Brought ideas to mind.
It would be way better on the track if it was just a linear adjustment with a highly predictable feel and control. The unpredictable pulsing taking over control is the aspect that sucks, if that wasn’t blindingly obvious before.

‘just saying, if you didn’t like downforce wings before, try 341kph to 105kph down a big hill before a turn. Ha ha ha
View attachment 48950

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Most of the times when the ABS intervenes I hardly notice it, or at least it intervenes in a way that you expect so it’s not an issue.

But very intermittently, when the parameters are just right, I get a feeling of: “Woe, my brakes didn’t feel right!”

It’s not a feeling of pulsing that’s noticeable, it’s almost like the lever feels more squishy than normal and the ramp up from progressive initial bite to full brake power doesn’t feel as smooth and linear, or at least the curve upward of brake pressure doesn’t feel like what your use to. It’s not huge, but just enough that it surprises you in a moment where you really don’t want to be surprised by your brakes feeling different and is a slight distraction that can take you out of the moment and break your concentration a bit.

It’s rare but precisely because it doesn’t happen all the time it surprises you.

It’s entirely possible that the abs system is pulsing in that moment, and that it’s just pulsing so subtly that it doesn’t FEEL like pulsing, it just feels like a squishier lever and a different curve upward of friction coefficient in the ramp up of stopping power as you squeeze the lever.

If you look at the front phonic ring on a 1098R it has 6 pins for the hall sensor that's new information every 60 degrees, and I thought going to the then BSD add on tc kit with 8 pins was modern...every 45 degrees..

Now look at the front ring from a v4 it has 48 teeth so new information every 7.5 degrees...

the systems are getting more and more sensitive and efficient.

Steven31371 said:

Most of the times when the ABS intervenes I hardly notice it, or at least it intervenes in a way that you expect so it’s not an issue.

But very intermittently, when the parameters are just right, I get a feeling of: “Woe, my brakes didn’t feel right!”

It’s not a feeling of pulsing that’s noticeable, it’s almost like the lever feels more squishy than normal and the ramp up from progressive initial bite to full brake power doesn’t feel as smooth and linear, or at least the curve upward of brake pressure doesn’t feel like what your use to. It’s not huge, but just enough that it surprises you in a moment where you really don’t want to be surprised by your brakes feeling different and is a slight distraction that can take you out of the moment and break your concentration a bit.

It’s rare but precisely because it doesn’t happen all the time it surprises you.

It’s entirely possible that the abs system is pulsing in that moment, and that it’s just pulsing so subtly that it doesn’t FEEL like pulsing, it just feels like a squishier lever and a different curve upward of friction coefficient in the ramp up of stopping power as you squeeze the lever.

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Yes compared to older systems it's leaps better for sure. Mostly I never notice it, the brakes are really pretty good.
The incident I refereed to was pretty extreme braking hitting some washboard bumps. The lever felt out of my control, it was not remotely subtle. It was in 2021, maybe the setting was even at 3. Last year I set it to 2, then 1 on the track.

Marquez could have done with ABS on the weekend

Heres an interesting comment on ABS;

"Anti-lock Braking Systems (ABS) are NOT designed to help you stop faster!

Despite the general impression that ABS equipped vehicles can stop faster than those without, in general this is not true. ABS is primarily intended to help prevent the loss of control (caused by locked brakes), not to in some magical way, make the brakes more effective at stopping the vehicle.

The reason ABS is not particularly effective in terms of braking ability on dry surfaces is that it is generally pretty easy to avoid locking the brakes anyway. So, I suppose, there are those that will argue that ABS helps you stop faster on slippery surfaces even if not on dry ones.

In fact that is not always true either. There are tests that show improved stopping performance (for cars and trucks) on WET surfaces, where drivers are more apt to overuse their brakes to the point of locking them, but there are several other studies that demonstrate absolutely convincingly that braking distances increase with ABS over non-ABS equipped vehicles when riding on loose gravel surfaces. (This, because gravel piles up and tends to create a ‘dam’ in front of a locked wheel where a rolling wheel tends to ride up and over a much smaller ‘dam’.)

But ‘maintaining control’ is a good thing by itself, right? Surely that is good enough reason to require every vehicle to have ABS equipped brakes, right? Nope.

In February of 1996 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced it had dropped the safety standard requirement for anti-lock brake systems on all new cars.

They did so because studies showed a 0% decrease in the overall number of accidents when comparing ABS equipped cars against those without ABS, AND because these studies showed a 40% increase in single vehicle run-off-the-road accidents with ABS equipped cars. (Apparently your odds of getting into an accident if you lock your brakes in a car is less than if you do not – implying that if you lock them you will likely simply slide in the direction you were moving, but if you maintain some measure of (impaired) control you are likely to throw the vehicle into a path that takes you off the road.)

I think ABS makes sense for a cage, and maybe more sense for an 18-wheeler, but is of marginal value on a motorcycle EXCEPT IN THE EVENT THAT YOU ARE PRONE TO PANIC AND OVERUSE YOUR BRAKES (in which case ABS can easily save your life!). It affects stopping distance insignificantly. What it is intended to do is help maintain control if you ride over surfaces that provide uneven traction. A cage could hit a patch with just one tyre, or just the tyres on one side, and braking and control could easily be lost as a result. If you hit gravel with a motorcycle it will invariably be with both tyres. Meanwhile, a slide is a slide is a slide. Why do you think ABS should be turned off when riding on dirt?

On the other hand, if your bike is equipped with ABS you do not have to be as skilful with your brakes and if you want to eliminate the chance of locking either your front or rear wheels, ABS is just the ticket for you. (I think working at making your braking skills as good as possible is a better strategy for almost anybody.)

One other thing, you might consider ABS as a form of insurance. If price is not an issue, and even if you are not totally convinced that ABS will save your life someday, it might be worth it to you to have ABS on your bike."

Obviously, these are just my opinions on the matter. I do not want to leave you with the impression that I’m recommending against having ABS. Instead, I’d prefer you made that decision based on being informed and having realistic expectations.

Did you copy and paste that from a very dated article?