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RickD996 said:
And yet, can't grasp, the basic logic of the limitations of an ABS system? 🤣
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really.....:rolleyes: you are the one that's turned the tech talk into the "whatever" or " you don't understand"... smacks to me like you've run out of knowledge!
 
SuperDomestique said:
Agreed 100%. Put my ABS to work a few days ago when a gas tanker pulled in front of me 🔥🔥🔥 It was kind of amazing how well it worked and how much control was there.

But ABS is only good in certain situations. There’s a place and a time for it. In the right hands, ABS is more a hindrance than a help.

And I’m all for Jet Prime sorting out this issue since Ducati won’t provide a solution (even though it has no bearing on me).
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most of these 'all of a sudden incidents' come down to poor observation and planning...... how big was the tanker..
 
Well what I can assume is the tanker didn't just land from space... so it must of come out from somewhere. Even if I couldn't see the tanker I would be able to see the somewhere. The observation links that say I can't see behind that but there are street signs, traffic lights or any other information that would make make me think of a 'what if'.

In the UK some call the person pulling out a smidsy, sorry mate I didn't see you. I say you make your own luck! Do it to them before they do it to you. No point in lying in a hospital bed shouting it was my right of way!!!
 
+1 I'd like to try experiment with it truly OFF / ON as well. I rode 46 years without ABS, in varying conditions.
More anecdotal evidence:
ABS level 2: On track, down the straight +280KPH, hit some small F1 ripples straight up 0 lean angle in the braking zone ABS dropping brake power to ~10% for a good 30-40 meters of shitting myself. Then it popped back on, felt like I was wrestling a snake under the lever. Crazy feeling. Lap blown, went way wide.
0 ABS on my 848 with no electronic assists of any kind. Same thing maybe at 220 -240KPH many times... a little tire chirping and continued my day.

I don't know how many times ABS has saved my ass on the street integrated with all the other systems on the V4S it's pretty amazing. I'm a fan! But it ain't perfect yet.
I'm certainly not the trail braking master, but feel seems pretty critical. They need to work out the feel IMHO.
I don't know why 3-2-1-0 wouldn't be good.
 
Vbreeze said:
+1 I'd like to try experiment with it truly OFF / ON as well. I rode 46 years without ABS, in varying conditions.
More anecdotal evidence:
ABS level 2: On track, down the straight +280KPH, hit some small F1 ripples straight up 0 lean angle in the braking zone ABS dropping brake power to ~10% for a good 30-40 meters of shitting myself. Then it popped back on, felt like I was wrestling a snake under the lever. Crazy feeling. Lap blown, went way wide.
0 ABS on my 848 with no electronic assists of any kind. Same thing maybe at 220 -240KPH many times... a little tire chirping and continued my day.

I don't know how many times ABS has saved my ass on the street integrated with all the other systems on the V4S it's pretty amazing. I'm a fan! But it ain't perfect yet.
I'm certainly not the trail braking master, but feel seems pretty critical. They need to work out the feel IMHO.
I don't know why 3-2-1-0 wouldn't be good.
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Absolutely. I understand the negative of 3-2-1-0 on road. Riders accidentally dropping into N coming in to junctions etc.
So, a lever, to lock out N, makes sense.

But, on track, if in first, I've never tried to get a lower gear. But have, on many occasions, experienced hitting N instead of first. And, we don't need a lever atm, to select N. So....what's the big deal?
 
RickD996 said:
Absolutely. I understand the negative of 3-2-1-0 on road. Riders accidentally dropping into N coming in to junctions etc.
So, a lever, to lock out N, makes sense.

But, on track, if in first, I've never tried to get a lower gear. But have, on many occasions, experienced hitting N instead of first. And, we don't need a lever atm, to select N. So....what's the big deal?
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I may be wrong, but I believe he was referring to ABS levels 3, 2, 1 and 0, where the latter would be completely turned off.
 
Fry said:
I've had front ABS intervene a couple of time during amateur races when I was pushing very hard: 2019 V4 with Race Evo2, SC2 front, good grip conditions. At the time, I felt that the system had saved me from crashing. The intervention did run me wide and cost me time but that was better than a crash in my mind. Since then, I have improved my riding and bike setup and am starting to believe the front tire can handle more cornering load (if applied smoothly and correctly) and that perhaps the ABS system will limit a rider once he's past a certain point. The fastest guy I know personally on a V4 has his ABS bypassed and says it's a must-have modification, for "feel" more than avoiding intervention.
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There was a post Rick made that stood out to me about ABS.

He talked about how in certain conditions the brake feel and stability of the bike will just feel different, a momentary feeling of a kind of instability, almost like a feeling of surprise inconsistency on the braking.

As soon as he described that recognized it, though it’s rare there have been a few times where the brake feel and front end stability just felt off, squishier than normal with an odd inconsistency to what I’m used to….I think that’s abs interviewing in a weird way after reading Rick’s post.

For now I think overall the abs is more helpful than intrusive overall for me, but as I progress I can see wanting to get rid of it.
 
Steven31371 said:
There was a post Rick made that stood out to me about ABS.

He talked about how in certain conditions the brake feel and stability of the bike will just feel different, a momentary feeling of a kind of instability, almost like a feeling of surprise inconsistency on the braking.

As soon as he described that recognized it, though it’s rare there have been a few times where the brake feel and front end stability just felt off, squishier than normal with an odd inconsistency to what I’m used to….I think that’s abs interviewing in a weird way after reading Rick’s post.

For now I think overall the abs is more helpful than intrusive overall for me, but as I progress I can see wanting to get rid of it.
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Cool description. Brought ideas to mind.
It would be way better on the track if it was just a linear adjustment with a highly predictable feel and control. The unpredictable pulsing taking over control is the aspect that sucks, if that wasn’t blindingly obvious before.

‘just saying, if you didn’t like downforce wings before, try 341kph to 105kph down a big hill before a turn. Ha ha ha😂
2A16A926-E1FE-4AD1-A832-D6BECB884057.png
 
It is extremely difficult to make an ABS system predictable (which is a subjective term in itself).

Modern ABS relies on various algorithms and logic computing so it isn't a matter of simply reducing intervention, it's a bit more complex.

The same goes for traction control which is probably why some GP riders weren't too fond of it's introduction.
 
Vbreeze said:
Cool description. Brought ideas to mind.
It would be way better on the track if it was just a linear adjustment with a highly predictable feel and control. The unpredictable pulsing taking over control is the aspect that sucks, if that wasn’t blindingly obvious before.

‘just saying, if you didn’t like downforce wings before, try 341kph to 105kph down a big hill before a turn. Ha ha ha😂
View attachment 48950
Click to expand...

The ABS on my V4R, and V4 22, doesn't pulse. It is almost perfect. Needs a little calibration for slicks 👌🤷‍♂️
 
Vbreeze said:
Cool description. Brought ideas to mind.
It would be way better on the track if it was just a linear adjustment with a highly predictable feel and control. The unpredictable pulsing taking over control is the aspect that sucks, if that wasn’t blindingly obvious before.

‘just saying, if you didn’t like downforce wings before, try 341kph to 105kph down a big hill before a turn. Ha ha ha😂
View attachment 48950
Click to expand...

Most of the times when the ABS intervenes I hardly notice it, or at least it intervenes in a way that you expect so it’s not an issue.

But very intermittently, when the parameters are just right, I get a feeling of: “Woe, my brakes didn’t feel right!”

It’s not a feeling of pulsing that’s noticeable, it’s almost like the lever feels more squishy than normal and the ramp up from progressive initial bite to full brake power doesn’t feel as smooth and linear, or at least the curve upward of brake pressure doesn’t feel like what your use to. It’s not huge, but just enough that it surprises you in a moment where you really don’t want to be surprised by your brakes feeling different and is a slight distraction that can take you out of the moment and break your concentration a bit.

It’s rare but precisely because it doesn’t happen all the time it surprises you.

It’s entirely possible that the abs system is pulsing in that moment, and that it’s just pulsing so subtly that it doesn’t FEEL like pulsing, it just feels like a squishier lever and a different curve upward of friction coefficient in the ramp up of stopping power as you squeeze the lever.
 

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