Promising Ducati 1199 lap times at Phillip Island SBK test (SPOILER ALERT)

jarelj · Feb 18, 2014

shakazulu12 said:
Top Speeds
1 33 M. MELANDRI Aprilia RSV4 Factory 316,7
2 50 S. GUINTOLI Aprilia RSV4 Factory 316,7
3 58 E. LAVERTY Suzuki GSX-R1000 314,9
4 24 T. ELIAS Aprilia RSV4 Factory 312,1
5 1 T. SYKES Kawasaki ZX-10R 310,3
6 76 L. BAZ Kawasaki ZX-10R 310,3
7 65 J. REA Honda CBR1000RR 308,6
8 7 C. DAVIES Ducati 1199 Panigale R 308,6
9 22 A. LOWES Suzuki GSX-R1000 305,9
10 91 L. HASLAM Honda CBR1000RR 305,1
11 34 D. GIUGLIANO Ducati 1199 Panigale R 303,4
12 52 S. BARRIER BMW S1000 RR EVO 297,5
13 59 N. CANEPA Ducati 1199 Panigale R EVO 297,5
14 71 C. CORTI MV Agusta F4 RR 296,7
15 10 I. TOTH BMW S1000 RR 295,1
16 21 A. ANDREOZZI Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 291,9
17 11 J. GUARNONI Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 291,9
18 9 F. FORET Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 291,9
19 84 M. FABRIZIO Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 291,1
20 44 D. SALOM Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 290,3
21 32 S. MORAIS Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 289,5
22 23 L. SCASSA Kawasaki ZX-10R EVO 288,0
23 56 P. SEBESTYEN BMW S1000 RR EVO 281,3
24 99 G. MAY EBR 1190 RX 268,7
25 20 A. YATES EBR 1190 RX 268,0

Uh oh......

Last year Checa would get blown away on the straights and have to make it all up on corner entry and mid-corner, which was doable in qualifing but not in a race with other bikes in front of him. That forced him to make uncharacteristic mistakes and crash repeatedly all season long. If they're still down 10 kmh this year that's not a good sign, I'll have to cross not just my fingers but my toes on this one also!!!

shakazulu12 · Feb 18, 2014

Note they are tied for fastest Evo though with the BMW. But yeah, I don't think it has the top end in WSBK trim. If I was a guess, there simply isn't a way to get enough air into that airbox to feed that monster at high revs/speed like that.

jarelj · Feb 18, 2014

Yeah, the EVO Ducati is looking great, even faster than the MV and BMW Non-EVO entries! Strange that the BMW is so slow, the factory bikes last year definitely weren't that slow, I guess they're not getting the same parts any longer and/or the rider is a LOT slower, which looks like it may be the case. But it could always be worse...... you could be on the EBR with a top speed roughly equivalent to a bone stock 899 Panigale!!!

shakazulu12 · Feb 18, 2014

I have absolutely no idea why Buell ran in the superbike class and not the Evo class. Supposedly they had to switch engines after the first session (scary with an engine cap this season), which is not a quick process on that bike. Complicating things further, some of the spares were held up in customs.

I think the lack of factory support on the BMW is going to show this year. I have no intimate knowledge of how any WSBK team works, but just from watching racing a ton, it seems like that bike is somewhat tricky without any support.

I'm actually excited for the Panigale in the EVO class, and for the 2015 season and beyond. I think this year is going to be another rough one though for superbike. It just seems to me that the Panigale is a great Superstock/Evo platform, but can't quite cut it with the full on spec superbikes. Which is great for clubracers etc, but going to make it a long season. I just don't see that there is going to be much motivation to develop it further this year, knowing that next year it's all Evo rules, with some tweaks being hinted at (last article I saw said cams being an open option, so nothing major).

JeffD · Feb 18, 2014

Duck41 said:
Hmm...doesn't look particularly inspiring. The 5 mph difference is equivalent to about 2.4 yards per second but fortunately the longest straight at Phillip Island is just under a kilometer. I'm guessing it probably takes around 9-10 seconds to get up to those speeds, leaving possibly a second or less at max speeds. If the speed trap stats hold true come race day, I'd say the Pani can expect to lose a yard or so before braking comes into play.

Wilkson would know for sure, but I believe you come out of Swan corner (that leads onto the front straight) already at about 200 km/hr, so even though the straight is long the acceleration run is not too long. However, as Jarel submitted, this is a telling sign that Giugliano is riding the crap out of most turns at the track to make up the lap time difference and in a racing scenario they will get swallowed up by competitors who can use their power and speed advantage to pass easily on the front straight, or out of the Southern Loop and passing into Stoner Corner or before Honda Corner.

JeffD · Feb 18, 2014

jarelj said:
Yeah, the EVO Ducati is looking great, even faster than the MV and BMW Non-EVO entries! Strange that the BMW is so slow, the factory bikes last year definitely weren't that slow, I guess they're not getting the same parts any longer and/or the rider is a LOT slower, which looks like it may be the case. But it could always be worse...... you could be on the EBR with a top speed roughly equivalent to a bone stock 899 Panigale!!!

By mid-season last year Ducati knew they had no chance with current SBK rules, so they concentrated on the Evo setup as that was the best use of time and resources. I think it is paying off finally.

As much as I really like Chaz, I do think they made a mistake by not putting Canepa on the factory SBK machine - or did they?

EBR is flush with backing from Hero India, and he wants to make a play he's never been able to do before, which is play on the World Stage. He admitted that they would be far behind the 8-ball, but it's not his money, so he doesn't really have anything to lose. We'll see how deep their resources are and perhaps they also are just focusing on the Evo setup for next year but using the SBK class to explore all the development options they can. What they learn in racing development this season will magically make it into the EBR 1190RX production bike next year and be Evo-certified

Eleven 99 · Feb 18, 2014

JeffD said:
By mid-season last year Ducati knew they had no chance with current SBK rules, so they concentrated on the Evo setup as that was the best use of time and resources. I think it is paying off finally.

As much as I really like Chaz, I do think they made a mistake by not putting Canepa on the factory SBK machine - or did they?

EBR is flush with backing from Hero India, and he wants to make a play he's never been able to do before, which is play on the World Stage. He admitted that they would be far behind the 8-ball, but it's not his money, so he doesn't really have anything to lose. We'll see how deep their resources are and perhaps they also are just focusing on the Evo setup for next year but using the SBK class to explore all the development options they can. What they learn in racing development this season will magically make it into the EBR 1190RX production bike next year and be Evo-certified

I was also wondering why Canepa didn't get the superbike ride. That said, Chaz is an excellent racer but he doesn't always test/qualify very well. Just saying I wouldn't count him out yet.

jarelj · Feb 18, 2014

Eleven 99 said:
I was also wondering why Canepa didn't get the superbike ride. That said, Chaz is an excellent racer but he doesn't always test/qualify very well. Just saying I wouldn't count him out yet.

Well Canepa did the whole 2012 season on the Red Devils team on the 1098R and never did much with that ride. He's bounced around a lot between Superstock after he won it in '07, to Superbike, factory test rider, GP, back to Superstock, Superbike, etc. Davies really showed some promise on the Beemer last year, which I'm sure is what Ducati was looking at for this year, and Guigliano has already proven he's fast as long as he can stay on 2 wheels. After Nicky and Spies both turned down the ride, I guess those were the two "backup" choices!

JeffD · Feb 18, 2014

jarelj said:
Well Canepa did the whole 2012 season on the Red Devils team on the 1098R and never did much with that ride. He's bounced around a lot between Superstock after he won it in '07, to Superbike, factory test rider, GP, back to Superstock, Superbike, etc. Davies really showed some promise on the Beemer last year, which I'm sure is what Ducati was looking at for this year, and Guigliano has already proven he's fast as long as he can stay on 2 wheels. After Nicky and Spies both turned down the ride, I guess those were the two "backup" choices!

Canepa is younger than Chaz (and perhaps needed as much "maturing")and the Red Devils team has never really ran at the front, no matter what rider they've had. I like Canepa becuase he certainly has the skills and his few guest rides on the 1199 SBK bike were some of the best results of the year in dry conditions.

Maybe I'm biased by his YouTube videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFPmDeqrK88

jarelj · Feb 18, 2014

JeffD said:
... and his few guest rides on the 1199 SBK bike were some of the best results of the year in dry conditions.

Yes, I think that's the reason he got the ride on the Evo bike this year, the kid's fast and might work his way into a full factory seat next year with an Evo championship this year. But Davies won 3 races and had 6 podiums last year, pretty tough to say Canepa showed more potential than that. Googly-ah-no is the one who is a wildcard, he has never won a SBK race but he's definitely fast and a showman and he's Italian too like Canepa, but is a more recent Superstock champion than Canepa (2011 vs. 2007) and the 3 past years in SBK with better results each year. I'd say if Canepa ever finishes a race in front of Chaz or Julie-anno (other than a crash) it's all over for that rider!

P.S. - But I agree that Canepa's YouTube videos are awesome!

Capt CF · Feb 19, 2014

jarelj said:
Yes, I think that's the reason he got the ride on the Evo bike this year, the kid's fast and might work his way into a full factory seat next year with an Evo championship this year. But Davies won 3 races and had 6 podiums last year, pretty tough to say Canepa showed more potential than that. Googly-ah-no is the one who is a wildcard, he has never won a SBK race but he's definitely fast and a showman and he's Italian too like Canepa, but is a more recent Superstock champion than Canepa (2011 vs. 2007) and the 3 past years in SBK with better results each year. I'd say if Canepa ever finishes a race in front of Chaz or Julie-anno (other than a crash) it's all over for that rider!

P.S. - But I agree that Canepa's YouTube videos are awesome!

+1 - I love watching Canepa. He's like my road version of Jason Anderson.

Desmobill · Feb 19, 2014

Didn't they give the 1199 a break this season? I recall reading something about forcing them to put restrictors on it last year, which hurt speed. Then there we talks about removing them, which would make the bike competitive.

That would explain improved Results in wsbk. The 1199 always did ok in superstock. So I bought one

)

Duck41 · Feb 19, 2014

Capt CF said:
+1 - I love watching Canepa. He's like my road version of Jason Anderson.

Canepa is great, but I was a much bigger La Marra fan. I imagine he was favored for the EVO ride until his injury. His return to racing is still up in the air but it's difficult to imagine he'll ever return to his former state if he does return.

shakazulu12 · Feb 19, 2014

Desmobill said:
Didn't they give the 1199 a break this season? I recall reading something about forcing them to put restrictors on it last year, which hurt speed. Then there we talks about removing them, which would make the bike competitive.

That would explain improved Results in wsbk. The 1199 always did ok in superstock. So I bought one )

They quietly removed those restrictors a few rounds into last season actually.

Capt CF · Feb 19, 2014

Duck41 said:
Canepa is great, but I was a much bigger La Marra fan. I imagine he was favored for the EVO ride until his injury. His return to racing is still up in the air but it's difficult to imagine he'll ever return to his former state if he does return.

+1 - I didn't mean to discount him, but figured he would be out possibly permanently. Between that and Alessia I really, really feel bad for the dude.

shakazulu12 · Feb 19, 2014

Is it just me, or is he not using the clutch on downshifts? Thought you had to use factory electronics in Superstock?

JeffD said:
Canepa is younger than Chaz (and perhaps needed as much "maturing")and the Red Devils team has never really ran at the front, no matter what rider they've had. I like Canepa becuase he certainly has the skills and his few guest rides on the 1199 SBK bike were some of the best results of the year in dry conditions.

Maybe I'm biased by his YouTube videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFPmDeqrK88

quackquack · Feb 19, 2014

Duck41 said:
Canepa is great, but I was a much bigger La Marra fan. I imagine he was favored for the EVO ride until his injury. His return to racing is still up in the air but it's difficult to imagine he'll ever return to his former state if he does return.

Def right about that this guy had talent and was very entertaining ... Reminds me of Ben spies when he won wsbk very quick and rough he wasn't smooth just elbows everywhere

jarelj · Feb 19, 2014

shakazulu12 said:
Is it just me, or is he not using the clutch on downshifts? Thought you had to use factory electronics in Superstock?

Looks like he's using the clutch, you can see his left hand moving back and forth. Yes Superstock has to use homologated software, and as far as I know the Ducati Corse Superstock kit does not have a 2-way strain sensor and downshift blipper built-in like the Superbike does.

JeffD · Feb 19, 2014

jarelj said:
Looks like he's using the clutch, you can see his left hand moving back and forth. Yes Superstock has to use homologated software, and as far as I know the Ducati Corse Superstock kit does not have a 2-way strain sensor and downshift blipper built-in like the Superbike does.

I agree I see his left hand manipulating the clutch at least on some downshifts.

In the new Cycle News, Alan Cathcart has a test-ridden review of the Panigale RS13 SBK and 1199R STK machines. He compares them to each other and also to Sykes' ZX-10R SBK he rode the day before. Very good information that dovetails with what you've already noted Jarel. He also mentions that neither of the machines have auto-blipping software for downshifts.

Check it out if you haven't yet: Cycle News - Cycle News 2014 Issue 51 February 19 2014

Steve B · Feb 19, 2014

That was an interesting read on the RS13. Cathcart's been around forever and has ridden everything with wheels, including most all of the MotoGP and SBK rides of recent years. And yet he thought highly of the Pani's chassis, which most people were so focused on after the MotoGP debacle. Virtually all of his negative comments were on the power and its delivery, which mirror Checa's comments pretty closely. Imagine if he'd ridden it with the restrictors still in!

Here's hoping the '14 and '15 regs suit the bike better - bring on the racing!

Promising Ducati 1199 lap times at Phillip Island SBK test (SPOILER ALERT)

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