Quickshifter for 2013 1199 (want downshift capability)

greggiacona said:
Help me solve a mystery. I have a 2012 1199S, bought 2 summers ago, (2021) with about 5k miles on it. Bike was bone stock-no evidence of any aftermarket shift system but my bike offers both up and down QS.

I've tested it numerous times, it is indeed QS down---not just rev-matching. Throttle needs to be under load, but it will very smoothly downshift if engine/throttle is under load.

How can this be? I'm understanding 2012 1199S models did NOT offer bi-directional QS.

Would love opinions on this--not complaining--glad to have it!

Greg
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On the V4, the QS down will not work if there is any input to the throttle at all. All of the up/down QS I've come across which are not of a strain type function the same. +5V, ground and signal to ECU. There's a different voltage provided to the ECU if the QS is at idle or if an up or down shift is being called for. Ducati's OEM is Domino and they're used by a few different manufacturers.
 
greggiacona said:
That info notwithstanding--my 1199 has bi-directional QS, 100%. I've looked for an aftermarket kit--can't find one.
Click to expand...

If you have an 1199 with bi-directional shifting .. ie. blipper down and cut-power up shifting, it is not stock. Stock 1199's are up-shift/quickshift only, and utilize a 2-wire/2-pin electrical connector into the wiring harness. A closeup picture of the shift rod sensor will tell the entire story.
 
Here's a couple pics of the shift rod and sensor on my 1199S. The interior wires are in a sheath so unable to visually confirm how many wires are inside.
 

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That's the same as the 1299 unit. How many pins are in the electrical connector? If it's 3 pins, you may have a 1299 wiring harness and computer installed. All the wiring schematics for the 1199 show only 2-pin connectors. I was thinking it might be a 1299 wiring harness swapped into the 1199 chassis, but then saw it was an 1199S, so I checked the 1199 Schematic.
The Quick Shifter connector, connector #31 on both the Standard, R and S models, is only 2-pins. The detector switch is on the Top of the rod, as in your picture. As far as I've seen the 1299 QS/Blip has the switch on the top as well, but is definitely a switch, not a load sensor, so the computer is looking for an up 'on' for QS up, and a down 'on' for blipping, then the computer does all the magic to make it happen. Given the commonality between the two bikes, someone may have gone to the trouble of rewiring some things to fit the 1299 shifter onto an 1199. Don't know if you are the original owner, but that's the only explanation I can come up with. The only way to be certain is to unplug the QS at the wiring harness plug, and see how many pins it has, which would be my advice in this case. 2 pins it's just a QS. .3 pins and it's QS + Blip. If it's the latter, you have a genuine gem of an oddball. :)
 
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Hey guys--I know--my bike is an oddity--in a good way! I was pleasantly surprised to discover I have bi-directional QS. So the sensor on top of the rod indicates 1299 QS ? The 1199 does NOT have sensor on top?

I plan on taking the bike apart this summer to install race headers, alarm, new shock spring, new MC, etc. At that time I'll explore the sensor closer--I'll follow the harness to the end and count the pins.

I'm the second owner. If the shifting is definitely from a 1299, does that mean the ENTIRE harness is 1299? I find that unlikely--

I'll report back here this summer what I find out--

Greg
 
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Lots of assumptions being made there. Getting a 1299 ECU to work on a 1199 wouldn’t be an easy feat, and the pictured QS, looks just like the one that was on my 1199 and the used ones currently on eBay.
 
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greggiacona said:
Hey guys--I know--my bike is an oddity--in a good way! I was pleasantly surprised to discover I have bi-directional QS. So the sensor on top of the rod indicates 1299 QS ? The 1199 does NOT have sensor on top?

I plan on taking the bike apart this summer to install race headers, alarm, new shock spring, new MC, etc. At that time I'll explore the sensor closer--I'll follow the harness to the end and count the pins.

I'm the second owner. If the shifting is definitely from a 1299, does that mean the ENTIRE harness is 1299? I find that unlikely--

I'll report back here this summer what I find out--

Greg
Click to expand...

The sensor is on top of the rod on BOTH models, but a different sensor/switch is used on the 1299. All you have to do is pull the wire until you find the connector, unplug it and see how many pins there are in the connector. They all use the Mitsubishi ECU, but the pin-out and firmware is different between the 1199 and 1299. It's probably possible to update the firmware to 1299 status and functionality for the blip/qs, then connect to the proper output pin on the ECU to enable the 3rd wire, and thus functionality, for the system. I remember reading something about this a few years ago . .how it was theoretically possible, but have never seen an actual case of it occuring. Only by checking the pins in the connector will you actually know what has occured. The connector should be acessible by pulling the left fairing panel back slightly, and tracing the lead to the area next to the battery mount. That is where the connector lays in the harness.
 
Sheikh said:
The sensor is on top of the rod on BOTH models, but a different sensor/switch is used on the 1299. All you have to do is pull the wire until you find the connector, unplug it and see how many pins there are in the connector. They all use the Mitsubishi ECU, but the pin-out and firmware is different between the 1199 and 1299. It's probably possible to update the firmware to 1299 status and functionality for the blip/qs, then connect to the proper output pin on the ECU to enable the 3rd wire, and thus functionality, for the system. I remember reading something about this a few years ago . .how it was theoretically possible, but have never seen an actual case of it occuring. Only by checking the pins in the connector will you actually know what has occured. The connector should be acessible by pulling the left fairing panel back slightly, and tracing the lead to the area next to the battery mount. That is where the connector lays in the harness.
Click to expand...
I hope no one subscribes to this dribble. They are both Mitsu ECUs, but there is also the dashboard, ABS and BBS systems to consider. There would be error codes if these things aren't in sync as they are set to expect a certain software version. The glaring contradiction is that the QS down works under load, which I presume is to mean with throttle applied. IIRC, none of the Ducati OEM blippers worked if any throttle was applied.

There's something unusual here for sure. The there's a basic logic breakdown in this thread. When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras. The zebra of the thread being that someone hacked a 1299 ECU and wiring harness. I'd think it would be more likely that someone put 1199 fairings on a 1299 and sold it.
 
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Hello All,

This post isn't too old so hoping I get some decent input. I have the same 2013 1199 as well with Tuneboy (which I'm quite knowledgeable with) but having issues on track.

The bike has a mind of its own and unpredictable. Nearly every session I will get the occurrence of the bike jumping back up into a higher gear after QS down and approaching fast entry apex's while engine braking. It's quite scary when it jumps out of 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 4th as example. I've ruled out it being a hardware or transmission problem. If it was this it would be a more consistent problem. It's quite sporadic and no rhyme or reason.

I have been working with Brad at Tuneboy which their customer service is still awful. Emails arent responded to for days at a time. Wayne is non-existent.

I've attempted to adjust the BlipH tables and though I do feel the improvement in gear smoothness and effort in the pull up or push down, it's not remedying the bike jumping out of gear. It's also not me mistakenly hitting thr gear shift lever as I am very careful and more conscious of this when I ride to not cause accidentally. Not a newbie here.

Early on I could get away with this problem as my pace was not putting me at risk 4 years ago. Now however I'm at an Advanced, near Expert level pace, and can't risk or have this sitting on the back of my mind as I'm entering high speed corners on track. Not sure what to do at this point and am seriously debating scraping the TB QS altogether but with what? I'm told the 1199 ECUs dont play nice with Blip function due to not being made for.

You can see my video here for the 3 days I was PittRace having the symptom. It was horrible.



I just tried replacing the entire TB strain gauge rod and wire connector but didn't resolve it. It may have slightly improved it and not happening quite as frequent but was still there is the bottom line. I need a clear head on this.

Appreciate opinions and the possibilities to resolve this matter.
 
@Electronut this does seem very odd to say the least. I've got the same set up but don't have any of the issues your dealing with. Sounds like you've already gone down the route of making adjustments to the sensitivity and duration within the settings.

Question but have you tried putting OEM shifter on to see if any of the sporadic gear changes still occur? I understand you'd lose the blip function but just trying to isolate if the issue is the QS unit or related to something else..?
 
Seth Vo said:
@Electronut this does seem very odd to say the least. I've got the same set up but don't have any of the issues your dealing with. Sounds like you've already gone down the route of making adjustments to the sensitivity and duration within the settings.

Question but have you tried putting OEM shifter on to see if any of the sporadic gear changes still occur? I understand you'd lose the blip function but just trying to isolate if the issue is the QS unit or related to something else..?
Click to expand...

I appreciate your quick response Seth. If you don't mind me asking, what's your BlipH and BlipL table values and what does your slider configurations look like for blip pressures, kills etc. Maybe take a screen shot of what you have for each to make simple? I'm running the FullAkro V.6 trim and I downloaded from Wayne where he added couple version customized BlipH and BlipL values on that trim and I had flashed and played with different ones while at the track this past Sunday.

Do you track your bike? I assume you watched my video. Strange right? I'm at a loss.

Next step is to do exactly what you suggested after speaking with a close bud that runs a Ducati Service dept. Have to see if we can pinpoint the problem. Planning to get it on the dyno and see if we can replicate and narrow down the problem.

Most occurrences are after a downshift. So what I was going to try first was clutch it on the downshifts but still use the QS up. If still acted up then would disconnect the TB QS altogether and have to try to see if would occur using the clutch for up and down. That's very hard for me to do on track though. I need the QS to run race pace. It almost doesn't feel right at all to use the clutch. Throws me completely off. I could throw the OEM one back on too but then still don't have downshift but would be interesting to see if all upshifts work correctly. I'll see after tinkering with the TB QS first.

Also I leave the OEM QS connector white 2 prong lead exposed and tucked dangling behind fairing. No cover or anything over it. Does that matter you think?
 
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greggiacona said:
That info notwithstanding--my 1199 has bi-directional QS, 100%. I've looked for an aftermarket kit--can't find one.
Click to expand...

Something you said in an earlier post just stuck in my mind. You said it downshifts under positive throttle load, not on de-celeration load. I've done this many times with my 1199 before I installed the Tuneboy kit, by only lightly accelerating I managed to down shift, and by holding neutral throttle the same thing happened. It just slipped into the next gear DOWN, with little muss or fuss. The Blipper moves the geartrain from deceleration load to neutral transition load as it blips, then continues in the load switching direction to allow a close rev match for the lower gear to align and engage. If you were hammering the throttle I don't think you'd be able to down shift, and if you were completely off throttle the down shift would be very difficult because the cogs would want to stay locked together. But if the load wasn't extreme, it is possible to down shift by just clicking the the lever, and it will drop down a gear. That is as long as the load is not excessive. It's almost like a manual blip of the throttle, since a manual blip is what unloads the gears enough to allow the down shift. You only do the manual blip for a short moment, and not at high throttle levels, so if, in your case, you were holding a light positive throttle, the lack of a significant bind in the gears from a high throttle input would allow the cogs to disengage to a lower gear.

It may not be a mystery at all. You're probably just holding a light enough load on the gears that they can be forced into a downshift. I'm pretty sure you can't do it at anything over about 1/3 throttle, because the binding of the cogs would be too great to overcome until you backed off the power to allow it.

I'd love to see a video showing your throttle position and hand movements as you do these down shifts.
 
Electronut said:
Hello All,

This post isn't too old so hoping I get some decent input. I have the same 2013 1199 as well with Tuneboy (which I'm quite knowledgeable with) but having issues on track.

The bike has a mind of its own and unpredictable. Nearly every session I will get the occurrence of the bike jumping back up into a higher gear after QS down and approaching fast entry apex's while engine braking. It's quite scary when it jumps out of 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 4th as example. I've ruled out it being a hardware or transmission problem. If it was this it would be a more consistent problem. It's quite sporadic and no rhyme or reason.

I have been working with Brad at Tuneboy which their customer service is still awful. Emails arent responded to for days at a time. Wayne is non-existent.

I've attempted to adjust the BlipH tables and though I do feel the improvement in gear smoothness and effort in the pull up or push down, it's not remedying the bike jumping out of gear. It's also not me mistakenly hitting thr gear shift lever as I am very careful and more conscious of this when I ride to not cause accidentally. Not a newbie here.

Early on I could get away with this problem as my pace was not putting me at risk 4 years ago. Now however I'm at an Advanced, near Expert level pace, and can't risk or have this sitting on the back of my mind as I'm entering high speed corners on track. Not sure what to do at this point and am seriously debating scraping the TB QS altogether but with what? I'm told the 1199 ECUs dont play nice with Blip function due to not being made for.

You can see my video here for the 3 days I was PittRace having the symptom. It was horrible.



I just tried replacing the entire TB strain gauge rod and wire connector but didn't resolve it. It may have slightly improved it and not happening quite as frequent but was still there is the bottom line. I need a clear head on this.

Appreciate opinions and the possibilities to resolve this matter.
Click to expand...


Question. Are you running GP or standard shift pattern?

One of the foibles of the Tuneboy sensor is that if you accidentally bump the shifter with your toe at the wrong time, or lean on the shifter just a teensy bit, it can initiate an upshift cut or downshift blip (with resultant gear change possibility). I went to GP shift on mine, both for the better up shifts because I can really hammer the shift lever down when i want to shift, and because the accidental downshift movement is all but eliminated because I have to move the lever UP to downshift now.

Going GP pattern really helped me. Just a consideration.

also, concerning the stock sensor plug being left unplugged and dangling, since you have the 'quickshifter' box ticked in the setup, any inputs from that plug are totally ignored. Still tuck it out of the way to keep it clean, though
 
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Sheikh said:
Question. Are you running GP or standard shift pattern?

One of the foibles of the Tuneboy sensor is that if you accidentally bump the shifter with your toe at the wrong time, or lean on the shifter just a teensy bit, it can initiate an upshift cut or downshift blip (with resultant gear change possibility). I went to GP shift on mine, both for the better up shifts because I can really hammer the shift lever down when i want to shift, and because the accidental downshift movement is all but eliminated because I have to move the lever UP to downshift now.

Going GP pattern really helped me. Just a consideration.

also, concerning the stock sensor plug being left unplugged and dangling, since you have the 'quickshifter' box ticked in the setup, any inputs from that plug are totally ignored. Still tuck it out of the way to keep it clean, though
Click to expand...

Yes sir. Absolutely run GP Shift. Game changer for sure. Thank you for responding.

Thinking out loud, perhaps the lever rebound action after performing a downshift is causing a delayed effect and the TB strain gauge to upshift as a result?
 
Electronut said:
Yes sir. Absolutely run GP Shift. Game changer for sure. Thank you for responding.

Thinking out loud, perhaps the lever rebound action after performing a downshift is causing a delayed effect and the TB strain gauge to upshift as a result?
Click to expand...

I've always been suspicious of the strain gauges' sensitivity, and the possibility of a pendulum action of the shifter lever causing a false shift input with resultant throttle cut or blip. But, I hammer the shifter, per the advice form Ducati that this is a RACE transmission, and requires a bit of strong input to work properly. Every time it's popped out of gear has been because I ..... footed around with the shift lever.

I'm not sure how you are doing your downshifts. . .are you waiting a moment between shifts or just hammering through them in quick succession? I found that if I gave the transmission and bike a chance to settle into the next gear things tended to not do unseemly things like pop back into the last gear.

Also, to aid in my downshifts, I run the EBC at it's highest setting, to reduce the chance that the reverse torque of engine braking causes the transmission to not downshift properly. The harder you push on those locking cogs, the more of a chance it didn't quite get into the next gear completely and something might pop out of it's own accord. I also went into the Tune adjustments and softened the mid-high rpm off-throttle settings to allow for less engine braking at mid-upper rpm. IMO this helps the transmission finish it's shifts a bit better than hard slamming things as shown in the stock setting I have included. The first screenshot is the stock throttle settings in 3rd gear, and the 2nd is the ones I use to soften the engine braking. You have to use more rear brake, but the hit to the chassis and tire are softened by having the greater throttle openings I have dialed in.
 

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