Riding position

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Dropped it by 5mm. Define jacking on the power. Is that preferable to jacking off the power? This may be why I noticed slightly more rubbing on the chain, you are a hero. :D

Jacking on the power is the opposite of squatting on it. Going to quit now before this gets out of umm, hand... Never mind! :p
 
Jacking on the power is the opposite of squatting on it. Going to quit now before this gets out of umm, hand... Never mind! :p

I got you, when I have my oil changed/dash reset (dash failure) I will measure a stock bike etc. For now, I'll see how the adj. I made feels. Thanks again.
 
NVM, I figured out how to find out. If I go with a 5mm rise in height, I will set it back stock measure and adjust until 5mm lower for now.
 
NVM, I figured out how to find out. If I go with a 5mm rise in height, I will set it back stock measure and adjust until 5mm lower for now.

OK, that made me dizzy, and then I ran it through Google Translator and got a BSOD. :rolleyes:

As far as rear ride height (and riding position resulting from it, to keep somewhat on topic) goes, rotating the eccentric so that the axle moves further down works the same as adjusting the shock length longer. It moves the wheel down and further away from the tail, and increases the effective swingarm angle relative to the ground. Of course since the wheel sits on the ground in use, the equal/opposite reaction is that the tail goes up, rotating the bike forward at the front tire contact patch. Sort of like bronch's moving his seat and pegs up did for his body.

For the bike, it increases the rear suspension's tendency to stiffen under acceleration (jacking or anti-squat), raises the CG a bit, increases front weight transfer under braking, steepens the steering head angle and reduces trail. Rotating the eccentric the other way, such that the axle moves up, automagically has the opposite effect.

But, since we're rotating it to get proper chain tension and not for ride height, we have to counteract the result with shock length changes. So - if you measure ride height at X and after rotating the eccentric it's X +5mm, then you need to shorten your shock half that much to get back to where you were since the rear suspension has a 2:1 motion ratio. Or you can just say F it and ride it as is, which no doubt most do! :p
 
Lol, well I know this will sound weird. But I did it both ways, and it yielded the same results.

Ie 1:1
 
I had the same issue, Check your Rider Sag, I adjusted mine now i feel more "in the bike" than "on top". I originally set my rider sag with the weight of full gear which is fine for the track which was a mistake.

This might be dumb, but is there a standard for rider sag? I had a basic suspension set up, but they recommended I change the rear spring to accommodate my weight. I'm not sure that's the same thing you're talking about.
 
OK, that made me dizzy, and then I ran it through Google Translator and got a BSOD. :rolleyes:

As far as rear ride height (and riding position resulting from it, to keep somewhat on topic) goes, rotating the eccentric so that the axle moves further down works the same as adjusting the shock length longer. It moves the wheel down and further away from the tail, and increases the effective swingarm angle relative to the ground. Of course since the wheel sits on the ground in use, the equal/opposite reaction is that the tail goes up, rotating the bike forward at the front tire contact patch. Sort of like bronch's moving his seat and pegs up did for his body.

For the bike, it increases the rear suspension's tendency to stiffen under acceleration (jacking or anti-squat), raises the CG a bit, increases front weight transfer under braking, steepens the steering head angle and reduces trail. Rotating the eccentric the other way, such that the axle moves up, automagically has the opposite effect.

But, since we're rotating it to get proper chain tension and not for ride height, we have to counteract the result with shock length changes. So - if you measure ride height at X and after rotating the eccentric it's X +5mm, then you need to shorten your shock half that much to get back to where you were since the rear suspension has a 2:1 motion ratio. Or you can just say F it and ride it as is, which no doubt most do! :p

Ooops, just read this. Great explanation! Thanks. I haven't been able to find how different the position the Rizoma's are compared to stock. But, the visual you give with the combination of higher seat and rearsets that are back and up is exactly how I feel. It will be worse when I do the sprocket change.
 
So, I need help figuring out what to do. As I've put more miles on the 1199 I'm not as happy with the riding position. I have the race seat, Rizoma rear sets. It feels as if I''m up too high and COG too forward. It's uncomfortable and I lose "fine touch" cornering and with throttle control because my weight is so far forward. For reference, I took a 2 day class with CSS and we road s1krr's all day. No problems, I had very light touch on the bars, no fatigue, very easy to move left and right on the seat. I'm removing some padding from the seat (considering Luimoto cover for the stock seat) and was considering new clip ons with higher risers. 5'11" 200lbs. The dimensions of the 2 bikes really are not drastically different, ie wheelbase, seat height, length, rake/trail. Any thoughts?

I have set the sag and then recovered the stock seat with Luminoto cover and inserted the gel.
Have LSL pegs in the standard position. I also fitted some Gilles bars which are higher.

Much more comfortable for someone like me with a neck injury. Lots of hours in the clip on mod though. I would not have been able to afford to have them fitted by a tech so had to plod along myself

Very good result though. Just got back from a 350km ride and my butt is a little sore as the gel insert is still only about 12mm thick. The suspension is firm and the roads are bumpy. Neck a little sore but from the harsh road not the seating position.
 
I have the DP race seat and DP rear sets. Although better than OEM, I think that I will change to the following:

LightTEC rearsets, Gilles adjustable clip-ons (not to raise the bar but to set them back 5 degrees), and modify the tall DP rear seat by un-wrapping it and shaping the foam as well as lowering the foam height by 1 1/2". That will allow a better connection to the 1199 tank (with the tank grips) for me.

George Villar
 
I have the DP race seat.......... and modify the tall DP rear seat by un-wrapping it and shaping the foam as well as lowering the foam height by 1 1/2"....

I initially thought of doing something similar (slight re-shape) with my Race seat. Wouldn't what you describe put the height of the seat Race back to oem seat spec or even lower? :confused: Also, would the different seat configuration have an effect on how the cover goes back on?

Thoughts?
 
This might be dumb, but is there a standard for rider sag? I had a basic suspension set up, but they recommended I change the rear spring to accommodate my weight. I'm not sure that's the same thing you're talking about.

Usually the rear end rider sag is about 30mm. In other words when you sit on the bike it should drop approx 30mm. Ive seen a lot of club racers set their sag 33-36 mm. You do this by adjusting the preload on your springs and yes get the springs for your weight! I found that the Pani rear suspension is so stiff the sag barely moved when I sit on it. My height and weight is similar to yours. If you get the sag right your body position gets a lot better you feel more in the bike. As the bike rear end squats the bars will get a little taller reducing the wrist and lower back pressure.

Motorcycle Suspension Setup
 
I think most of the problem is probably because of the gas tank. The shape of Ducati tanks basically suck. They are not wide enough at the rear to allow you to grip the tank with the proper part of your inner thigh/knee.. so its hard to support your upper body with your abs and upper thighs like you should, and you end up putting too much weight through your wrists to compensate. The taller race seat you have and the Rizoma rearsets will only make this worse. The 1198's tank was bad, and so is the 1199. They design these things to look sexy but it gets in the way of functionality. As said some Stompgrip or Tech Spec grip pads will help (Stompgrip works better but is super ugly on an 1199, Tech Spec looks okay but doesn't work as well as the stompgrip) I also have a '09 Kawi ZX-6R that has a far superior tank shape which facilitates proper body positioning, and the shape of the tank is a big part of that. Unfortunately apart from seat and rear set changes there isn't much else you can do..

I read a review a while back and rear of the tank was designed to be skinny and contoured That way to allow the rider to transition/maneuver/flicking around the tank easier without getting caught up on sharp bulky tanks. I tend to agree it is very easy to maneuver around the tank but it is harder to grip with the knees.
 
Does anybody know of a table Spring/weight for the Pani?
 
I read a review a while back and rear of the tank was designed to be skinny and contoured That way to allow the rider to transition/maneuver/flicking around the tank easier without getting caught up on sharp bulky tanks. I tend to agree it is very easy to maneuver around the tank but it is harder to grip with the knees.

Skinny is not the issue; skinny is good. Heck I want the thing to be as skinny as a motocross bike. OR at least Bimota, with their DB7/8/Tesi, who are my benchmarks in that regard for sporbikes. The issue is all the different shapes and edges that don't give you anything to lock into, or for some get in the way. For instance with my scrawny bod, (5'8", or 173cm), the inside of my knees hit the fairing in front of where it's scalloped on the sides, so I have very little contact area to grab. Not an issue hanging off in a corner, but not so great for being able to hug the tank under braking, etc. Combine that issue with the stock slippery, down-angled seat and you have something that might be great to look at, but is a bit of an ergonomic mess.

George has got it; grippy race seat cut down and re-contoured to suit, with adjustable clip-ons and rearsets dialed in how you like them.

People tend to underestimate the importance of ergonomics, but getting yourself centered and comfortable (in the sporting, not luxurious sense), makes a very big difference in your riding. I'll shut up since that's a bit of a hot button for me but before I do, think about it. None of us would accept a bottom-feeder KIA econobox with a non-adjustable driving position, but most think it's absolutely fine on a top of the food-chain motorcycle. IMHO there's no excuse for it; heck even a plebian Gixxer 600 comes with adjustable rearsets. Shutting up now... :eek:
 
I have the DP race seat and DP rear sets. Although better than OEM, I think that I will change to the following:

LightTEC rearsets, Gilles adjustable clip-ons (not to raise the bar but to set them back 5 degrees), and modify the tall DP rear seat by un-wrapping it and shaping the foam as well as lowering the foam height by 1 1/2". That will allow a better connection to the 1199 tank (with the tank grips) for me.

George Villar

I can't go with Lightech. Trauma will never let me hear the end of it. :D

So, why do you want the bars back 5 degr and not up!
 
I can't go with Lightech. Trauma will never let me hear the end of it. :D

So, why do you want the bars back 5 degr and not up!

No, you HAVE to go with the Lightect rearsets, they make the bike run faster and cooler!! Any of the other are prone to just fall apart without notice, read that on the internet.
 
Usually the rear end rider sag is about 30mm. In other words when you sit on the bike it should drop approx 30mm. Ive seen a lot of club racers set their sag 33-36 mm. You do this by adjusting the preload on your springs and yes get the springs for your weight! I found that the Pani rear suspension is so stiff the sag barely moved when I sit on it. My height and weight is similar to yours. If you get the sag right your body position gets a lot better you feel more in the bike. As the bike rear end squats the bars will get a little taller reducing the wrist and lower back pressure.

Motorcycle Suspension Setup

Great stuff, thank you.
 
No, you HAVE to go with the Lightect rearsets, they make the bike run faster and cooler!! Any of the other are prone to just fall apart without notice, read that on the internet.

If I do, I won't admit it. The Rizoma's have some adjustment but not much. How adjustable do you find yours?
 
Skinny is not the issue; skinny is good. Heck I want the thing to be as skinny as a motocross bike. OR at least Bimota, with their DB7/8/Tesi, who are my benchmarks in that regard for sporbikes. The issue is all the different shapes and edges that don't give you anything to lock into, or for some get in the way. For instance with my scrawny bod, (5'8", or 173cm), the inside of my knees hit the fairing in front of where it's scalloped on the sides, so I have very little contact area to grab. Not an issue hanging off in a corner, but not so great for being able to hug the tank under braking, etc. Combine that issue with the stock slippery, down-angled seat and you have something that might be great to look at, but is a bit of an ergonomic mess.

George has got it; grippy race seat cut down and re-contoured to suit, with adjustable clip-ons and rearsets dialed in how you like them.

People tend to underestimate the importance of ergonomics, but getting yourself centered and comfortable (in the sporting, not luxurious sense), makes a very big difference in your riding. I'll shut up since that's a bit of a hot button for me but before I do, think about it. None of us would accept a bottom-feeder KIA econobox with a non-adjustable driving position, but most think it's absolutely fine on a top of the food-chain motorcycle. IMHO there's no excuse for it; heck even a plebian Gixxer 600 comes with adjustable rearsets. Shutting up now... :eek:

Steve, Good stuff and I agree with you. I have the race seat and it is pretty grippy compared to the stock seat. The other day I was riding on the street in a 50 MPH zone and two little kids ran across a red light on their side. The car in front of me locked his brakes almost took one of the kids out and I applied mine in a hurry although I was totally in control but there wasn't any place to grip my knees tightly and my nuts did pay for it. I don't have any tank grips on the Pani as I do on my other bikes because my knees does not even make contact with the tank. It make contact just below the tank next to the engine head and subframe and im 6 foot tall. I have the Rizoma rear sets which is set higher than the OEM and my knees are not high enough.
 

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