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Ghost, don't worry about that knee. I've had 3 surgeries on knees and one was after the bottom of my foot was touching my chin while tangled in a few bikes. Once you get ergos correct, both bike and yours, your leg will literally "fall out" where it needs to be. Some of what I teach really needs to be in person. I have a few demos that show how a few inches of body movement affords 60 degrees of forward vision. I will be at njmp for 3 days April 18/19/20 and most weekends we are on thunderbolt and I'm not at NYST
 
Man, that's worth a trip to Jersey in itself if you can help me figure that out. Because I haven't been able to and it really is a limiting factor for me.
 
Part of my paddock demo compares typically TD novice/intermediate trying to get the knee out, and how hard it is physically. Then I get my body right, hang my knee WAY out, reach down and push my knee back in with my hand, and you can watch it "fall" back out to full extension with zero efforts, as it is relaxed out there. I swear, 2 or 3 inches of movement of various parts of your body in the right combination make cheek off, knee out, tit on tank, chin on hand a very relaxed position. Last week a pic was going around of Marquez (or Lorenzo?) dragging elbow and waving. It's because he is locked in with his leg and very relaxed. I've said it before, I'm only a mediocre rider, and I can do it!
 
If anyone has any questions dealing with anything discussed so far, feel free. There are more subject to come, we've just started tipping in the bike ;)
 
mrbrettbaker said:
Brett under hard braking ie... end of the straight.... We should be totally gripping the tank between our knees though right ?? To take pressure off the bars\arms

Great question. Many teach that, many do. I used to and don't anymore. Let me back up a just a little and explain why. First of all, charging in, braking hard, then slamming the bars hard to tip the bike quickly into a turn is the most streessful (see also scary) part or our ride. Having to try to squeeze the tank tight with my legs while doing all this cranks the stress level up, and makes for another harsh physical transition when I turn the bike in. another coach taught me that as soon as the bike is turned, we need to "ragdoll" and get very loose. As I said, I push back on the bars and sit up, straight arming the bars in the braking zone. This is a place you DON'T want to be light on the bars. If you are doing it well on a Duc, there is a good chance your rear tire is hovering off the ground. I keep my arms locked straight out , bang the bars, and as I transition my body in and down, (at same time I'm easing off the brake if trailbraking) I relax my arms.Having straightarmed this until my transition, I am left in the position on the seat that I want to be to get off the bike properly. Remember as I tip the bike in I will be countersteering the bars with an abrupt and deliberate input, while spinning my knee and dropping my torso and head to the inside. There is a moment where you do a whole bunch of work at the same time, then basically relax your entire upper body and let your legs start doing the work. If you can make squeezing the tank work and still get one cheek off the bike before the turn and like being light on the bars at that point by all means continue. I feel very stressed and like I'm working too hard doing that, and really want to be loading the bars hard as can be at that point. For me, it actually makes the turning transition easier mentally as like I said, at the moment I bang the bars, I am ending all the physical work and abrupt inputs, and switching to a state of clam and relaxed minor little inputs and corrections. I then enjoy those moments of relative calm, cuz soon we be hangin on to the rear slidin around exitting with an 1199 ;)
Click to expand...


Thanks for this Brett, Although my main reasoning for trying to maintain a tight grip on the tank is.... Late, hard braking is my main strength on track and usually how I'll make up places, but if I put all everything through my arms in the braking zones I find I get terrible arm pump. I do find having to grip the tank to stop this makes my turn in transitions more awkward and possibly adds time to the time it takes me to get the bike on its side but with the arm pump thing I find it to be the only way I can manage.
Would appreciate it if you had any tips for how to deal with arm pump?

thanks so much too for your overall contribution to what I'm sure all of us track riders and racers would an consider an invaluable thread!! :)
 
Great question!!!!! Simple put, I have my clipons adjusted so my arms are straight when I sit up to brake. The bars are set so that when I straight arm them while sitting up, there is about 4" between my crotch and the tank. I get no arm pump because the load is transferred to my shoulders and chest. Push-ups are great conditioning too ;).
What is great is that as you back off the brakes and bang the bars, the tip in is almost a "relaxing" move, kinda like exhaling
 
Here is one of my favorite students. He was running an advanced group pace in intermediate group with the BP in the first pic. I got him to slow down for a few days, and he looked like the second pic. He is now also the resident fast guy at NYST. These pics were on a bone stock 03 R1 with beat suspension. I met him filling him around dragging his pegs bad enough that they would fold up in corners :)
 

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Things are looking decent for this weekend that I can at least get out a bit and try a few of these things. Salt and crap still on the roads, so keeping the pace slow to test a few things out is not a problem.
 
Brett, I ride advanced and am an ex racer, and I know my BP is not perfect. I'll get crossed up when pushing the limits and make stupid mistakes cause everythings happening so fast. So you're info is a great read..and kind of reminds me to slow down and almost relearn. So thanks for that!

Anyway, I had a question about clip on adjustment. When braking hard I get an annoying amount of pressure on the outside of my palms. Basically because the way the bars are positioned. In a perfect world I feel like I would like the bars pointing straight out and brought back some(to push me off the tank).. but then tapered back in once i'm in tuck and cornering.

Should I be looking for some happy medium on bar adjustment?
 
I know your question is directed to Mrbrett, but I'll throw this in then shut up. I had good luck on a different bike using speedymoto's omni bars to dial in bar position. You might take a look.

B
 
Bar setting can be tough. First , even at expert level, do the drill I recommended involving lifting yourself with your feet and make sure you don't fall forward. If you pegs are too far back, you'll carry a lot of weight on your hands. I like my bars set so that if I have my outside arm parallel to the ground and on the side of the tank, when I hang off my upper arm is 90 to my forearm, but still comfy on the bar, so I can hold on loose. There is always trade offs. It's VERY hard to change bar positions, it feels wired. Best to do first thing on a track day and try to see if it helps, not if you like it. It takes time to like it.
I'll post more tonight
 
mrbrettbaker said:
Been crazy busy but will try to continue the convo on BP soon, will address tip in and mid corner corrections next. Meanwhile, here is a blog by a guy I worked with last weekend at NCBike. It's an amazing coaching track and spent a good deal of time refining my own techniques.

Superbikes and SQL Server: Back on the Track: Surround Yourself With Expertise
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing that Brett. I hope to run into you at one of the Team Promo tracks day at Jersey this year. You will have a field day with my BP lol
 
Time to talk about tip in. If there is place that you have to be aggressive an harsh, this is it. Forget "smooth" for a bit. Watch the really fast guys and you'll see the bike turn/tip very deliberately and quickly. If you get used to turning in smoothly when you are at a novice pace you will find yourself running wide or missing your apex before you get fast. Most track days have turn in marker cones. Challenge yourself to be AT that cone before turning, then SLAM those bars! Even if while riding at novice pace, make the turning portion as quickly as possible in the shortest distance. The sooner you get the bike over and get off the handlebars, the sooner you can be back on the throttle. Add to that the fact that waiting until the marker to turn in allows you to drive in faster and deeper than if you had steered a long soft arch.
The term "bang the bars" is exactly that. In a moment, push and/or pull those bars in a countersteer move very abruptly. Practice this everywhere on everything you ride. 30 mph in a parking lot will work. You need to get used to the harshness of the move. It really is what separates the REAL fast guys from the also rans. For a racer, a racetrack is nothing but a serious drag strips with corners in the way. If you can minimize the distance and time you are turning, then you are pinning the throttle on the drag strips more while opponents are still turning.
 

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