Suspension rabbit hole

Calderara di Reno

Calderara di Reno

Joined Oct 2016
520 Posts | 264+
Australia
Finally think I've found my way out of the rabbit hole and can start enjoying the V4 ! Ive been riding/racing my 1299 (tricked up and with an F.E. engine) for a few years now. purchased a track ready V4 with all the gear, Ohlins, Oz Race wheels etc. Rode it a hand full of times in 3 years and nearly sold it a couple of months ago. I ride Phillip Island quite a bit and got sucked into going stiffer ....tighter comp more preload higher rear ride hight etc to give support and stop the rear pumping problem. Watched a couple of slomo shots of WSBK exiting T12 and it was obvious that the stiffer the suspension the more work the rear tire is required to do as in flex and pump. No rebound setting inside a tire.
Back to the garage and did some precise measuring, recording and what a difference. Sag set ok with 10.5 springs F & R for 82kg + gear. Rear ride height slightly lower than stock with a 42 sprocket adjustment, front raised to give me 104mm trail/24.6 degree rake. I havent been on PI with this as yet, only on my local track. The front still feels a little vague through mid corner and a little high, but rear is very planted.
Before the adjustments i had ordered a Forsaken triple clamp kit and linear rear shock link. (They are on their way) I'm hoping the clamps at 28mm offset will let me lower the front and still have additional trail and the link will calm the rear which will be noticed in the front vagueness , hoping !
Want to share my progress as i'm sure others here would benefit from these changes.
 
Interested to hear your findings.

What year is your bike and what pace do you ride at?
 
Ok, I have fitted the Forsaken offset triples and opted for 28mm bushes. Fitted the Forsaken linear shock link as well. Raced at my local track this weekend, straight into qualifying and , yes the bike is different . Took a few sessions to understand the changes and build some trust in the horse.
Rear link was making my 105 spring feel softer, this was indicated to happen, but what was happening the shock is moving further through it's stroke faster, I had to put a few clicks into the comp and a few less in rebound and it felt great.
Front, thought I could lower the bike having more trail, but opted to maintain my original height setting after a couple of laps. Interesting that I had 104mm trail with stock clamps, and with the 28mm offsets i had 110mm trail. The bike still changes direction effortlessly but more planted mid-exiting corner. Much more confidence inspiring (which i've been lacking of late). Thought braking may have been better, but with the front wheel more under the bike it probably lost some ?
Phillip Island is beckoning, PI exposes all weaknesses and strengths in seconds !!
 
Calderara di Reno said:
Ok, I have fitted the Forsaken offset triples and opted for 28mm bushes. Fitted the Forsaken linear shock link as well. Raced at my local track this weekend, straight into qualifying and , yes the bike is different . Took a few sessions to understand the changes and build some trust in the horse.
Rear link was making my 105 spring feel softer, this was indicated to happen, but what was happening the shock is moving further through it's stroke faster, I had to put a few clicks into the comp and a few less in rebound and it felt great.
Front, thought I could lower the bike having more trail, but opted to maintain my original height setting after a couple of laps. Interesting that I had 104mm trail with stock clamps, and with the 28mm offsets i had 110mm trail. The bike still changes direction effortlessly but more planted mid-exiting corner. Much more confidence inspiring (which i've been lacking of late). Thought braking may have been better, but with the front wheel more under the bike it probably lost some ?
Phillip Island is beckoning, PI exposes all weaknesses and strengths in seconds !!
Click to expand...

What track were you at? PI seems like such a unique fast and flowing track that it would necessitate its own settings
 
Phillip Island looks pretty technical and a lot of fun. I'm envious young man. Does the bike not push a little at initial turn in with 110mm trail?
 
I made a tool from a straightedge and a square bolted together on a slot and locates in the axle . Difficult to explain , but mimicks the lines drawn vertically through the axle and parallel through the steering tube. To the floor where you can get that measurement. Rake doesnt change because of the offset.
I uploaded the wrong photo and cant make it go away , our wine by the way !
Bruce Wayne said:
How are you measuring the trail?
Click to expand...
 

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I'll post up a photo of my tool , easy to make and gives you some precise numbers to work from.
baggerman said:
Phillip Island looks pretty technical and a lot of fun. I'm envious young man. Does the bike not push a little at initial turn in with 110mm trail?
Click to expand...

That is what I was expecting it to push a bit and also to feel very stiff at speed and not want to turn, hardly any difference except it has that railed feeling in the turn . On my local we have a very tight flip flop chicane exiting to a long straight, but I was actually faster through that section, maybe the rear working better getting on the gas earlier ?
P.I. is awesomeso fast, smooth, and very wide. Technical in that you have to get every corner exit right to enter the next corner because of the speed. Changing conditions through out the day make tire management a challenge.
 
So no push on the initial turn in all i can say is go faster it's there. But better mid corner. Does it run wide on the drive at all? I was thinking if one left a bike in Australia then you could do an endless summer sort of thing. It's that 13 hour flight... 1198 needed similar trail btw. I just hate that instant of tucky input because sometimes it ain't an instant.
 
Calderara di Reno said:
I'll post up a photo of my tool , easy to make and gives you some precise numbers to work from.


That is what I was expecting it to push a bit and also to feel very stiff at speed and not want to turn, hardly any difference except it has that railed feeling in the turn . On my local we have a very tight flip flop chicane exiting to a long straight, but I was actually faster through that section, maybe the rear working better getting on the gas earlier ?
P.I. is awesomeso fast, smooth, and very wide. Technical in that you have to get every corner exit right to enter the next corner because of the speed. Changing conditions through out the day make tire management a challenge.
Click to expand...
DM me with your settings and i will put it into our motospec software, offset, fork height, shock length, wheelbase, front and rear springs, the V4 is very susceptible to low COG, Happy to give you settings from Philip island with front running asbk rider from Last year on the V4
 
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Sure can, doing the last ride days at PI on the 29-30th before it closes for a resurface. Are the measurements taken with the bike sitting under its own weight ? ASBK rider wouldnt be Brian?
 
Calderara di Reno said:
Sure can, doing the last ride days at PI on the 29-30th before it closes for a resurface. Are the measurements taken with the bike sitting under its own weight ? ASBK rider wouldnt be Brian?
Click to expand...

Yes Bryan, we built a practice bike for him to test different setups. Measurements can be both, the software is motospec works really good for getting bike in the window and from there its small adjustments.
 
I'll get some measurements to you, then i'll know where to focus on adjustments at P.I.

Should I do the measure with the bike balancing on pegs under its own weight ?

Fork from the axle to where ? (I have different clamps and a cartridge kit)

From axle centre to top of frame headstock?
 
Calderara di Reno said:
I'll get some measurements to you, then i'll know where to focus on adjustments at P.I.

Should I do the measure with the bike balancing on pegs under its own weight ?

Fork from the axle to where ? (I have different clamps and a cartridge kit)

From axle centre to top of frame headstock?
Click to expand...
No need to measure anything ATM just need shock length (eye to eye fully extended if possible) spring rate for front and rear, wheelbase, the software has all the measurements so i can input the data and compare to ours. I will give you data with different offsets to compare.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
No need to measure anything ATM just need shock length (eye to eye fully extended if possible) spring rate for front and rear, wheelbase, the software has all the measurements so i can input the data and compare to ours. I will give you data with different offsets to compare.
Click to expand...
Here we go ....

Swing arm 605mm, Fork extended 755mm, Fork extended to top of headstock 720mm, shock extended 307mm, 28mm offset clamp. 10.5 springs front and shock.

Base 2018 V4, stock swingarm pivot.

Note that the front is sitting higher than stock by a fair bit to get trail before the 28mm offset, opted to keep the front height as when I lowered it , I felt my braking was compromised .
 

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